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Old 08-16-2010, 09:53 PM   #41
Ze'Manel Cunha
 
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Default Re: Engagement of Area Targets with Fully Automatic Fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
I have postulated, and GURPS supports, a direct conversion of Acc to MoA. Technically, as with the, I think, spaghetti sauce, "it's in there."

Acc 2 or 3 works for pistols, Acc 4 for SMGs and Carbines, Acc 5 for rifles, and acc 6-8 for precision weapons of ever more ridiculous lack of dispersion.

If you actually look up (or use a proxy for) the actual MoA of weapons, and look at the Acc values given them? While the relationship might be complicated (power law, log function, whatever), it's there and it works.
Well, let's keep it simple for gaming purposes for people like me who aren't gun bunnies, how would you correlate Acc to inches per 100 yds MoA?

We can, for simplicity's sake, say that a 1 inch MoA at 100 yards gives us a 7 inch MoA at 700 yards, and 10 inches at 1000 yards.
How does that relate to Acc and RoF in GURPS?
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:12 PM   #42
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Engagement of Area Targets with Fully Automatic Fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha View Post
Well, let's keep it simple for gaming purposes for people like me who aren't gun bunnies, how would you correlate Acc to inches per 100 yds MoA?

We can, for simplicity's sake, say that a 1 inch MoA at 100 yards gives us a 7 inch MoA at 700 yards, and 10 inches at 1000 yards.
How does that relate to Acc and RoF in GURPS?
Within reason, MoA ~ 300 x Acc^(-3.1)

Acc MoA
1 300.00
2 34.99
3 9.96
4 4.08
5 2.04
6 1.16
7 0.72
8 0.48
9 0.33

this includes Acc bonuses from ALL sources; it's the MoA of the delivered projectiles from the weapon. Meaning different bullets, esp particularly good or bad ones, can possibly move the Acc number.

Is this bulletproof? No, likely not...but it works fairly well, and, well...the results speak well for this as a concept.
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:57 PM   #43
Langy
 
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Default Re: Engagement of Area Targets with Fully Automatic Fire

I'm guessing that doesn't include the bonus from scopes or extra aim? I don't think either of those things will much affect dispersion, though braced/not braced probably should, right?

Anyways, very cool.
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Old 08-17-2010, 01:16 AM   #44
safisher
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Default Re: Engagement of Area Targets with Fully Automatic Fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
I don't think anyone in this thread has proposed anything that conflicts with these events.
Sure it does. Look, you want to know the beaten zone of an automatic weapon, right? It's way larger than you seem to think, a huge dispersion area. And it's not MOA (or even close to MOA!).

Assuming you guess range correctly (which is often estimated to be off by 10-15% of range, tightened up considerably with good equipment) The beaten zone (the zone in which 75% or so of a mgs bullets land) for an mg is huge at short range and smaller at long range (the tiniest dip in sighting drives the bullets into the ground directly in front of you, and the slightest lift up goes over the target). This means that there is a higher likelihood of bullets spreading out over a greater area at short range (you shoot long and short) but as the range increases the beaten zone gets smaller by quite a bit. Statistically, you miss by a larger margin at short range than long. At long range you are shifting the whole dispersion group onto to target, so you are likelier to get the whole group on target, but at such long range, you may only get half or less of the dispersion group on target. This means, basically, in GURPS terms you have equal opportunity for missing or hitting at close or long range. That's with stationary gunner, shooting at stationary targets. Thus a separate rule is not needed, even if you don't use the "missed by one equals a hit" rule and the "+10 for plinking" rule or the stationary targets and automatic fire rule.

For ref:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...m/6-40/Ch3.htm
(Yes, this is artillery, but HT was written by Mike Hurst, a former cannon cocker.)

For a good paper on MOA:
http://www.bobwheeler.com/guns/GroupStat.pdf

For something about beaten zone:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-22-68/c05.htm
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