animal combat

[optimu555]

Hey-hey
well a lot of talk has bin in my grub about Bears and how can they do attacks
one of my players can shape shift in to a bear and when he is in bear form. as bear he has bite and claw attack, in at least in DnD he wood be able to make 1 bite and 2 claw attack (with penalty's off cores)
1. dose the normal off hand rule apply to him
2. if so what is his "off hand"? is the bite attack his "main weapon"
3. if so when he takes ambidextrous dose it apply to... what attack
4. if he has extra attack advantage at least 1 lvl can he combine bite + 2 claw attack using dual attack. or with extra attack lvl 2

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by optimu555

Hey-hey
well a lot of talk has bin in my grub about Bears and how can they do attacks
one of my players can shape shift in to a bear and when he is in bear form. as bear he has bite and claw attack, in at least in DnD he wood be able to make 1 bite and 2 claw attack (with penalty's off cores)
1. dose the normal off hand rule apply to him

if he does not have the brawling skill and is usind DX to attack then yes.

Originally Posted by optimu555

2. if so what is his "off hand"? is the bite attack his "main weapon"

bite is a different attack, "off-hand" refers to the hand which is not your dominate one.

Originally Posted by optimu555

3. if so when he takes ambidextrous dose it apply to... what attack

the ambidextry advantage removes the "off-hand" penality (which is -4 to attack with saind off hand) bites are not penalized by the "off-hand" rule

Originally Posted by optimu555

4. if he has extra attack advantage at least 1 lvl can he combine bite + 2 claw attack using dual attack. or with extra attack lvl 2

in order to attack twice in 1 turn you have 3 options normally:

All out attack Double lets you attack twice, it can be both the same weapon or 2 different ones (2 claw swipes or a bites and claw or a bite bite)

Rapid strikes lets you attack twice with the same weapon at a skill penalty of -6

dual weapon attack lets you attack with 2 different weapons at skill -4

the last 2 are things you can use on a skill while the first was a maneuver you can choose. so you can combine them.

AoAD and making one of the a rapid strike gives you 3 attacks, one at full skill and 2 at skill-4 (a bite and claw swipe with both paws if you would imagine)

extra attack lets you add another attack maneuver to your turn so if you have that you can:

AoAD with dual weapon and extra attack X giving you X extra attacks, 1 at skill level and 2 at skill lvl -4

hope that help

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by optimu555

Hey-hey
well a lot of talk has bin in my grub about Bears and how can they do attacks
one of my players can shape shift in to a bear and when he is in bear form. as bear he has bite and claw attack, in at least in DnD he wood be able to make 1 bite and 2 claw attack (with penalty's off cores)
1. dose the normal off hand rule apply to him
2. if so what is his "off hand"? is the bite attack his "main weapon"
3. if so when he takes ambidextrous dose it apply to... what attack
4. if he has extra attack advantage at least 1 lvl can he combine bite + 2 claw attack using dual attack. or with extra attack lvl 2

1. There's no off-hand penalty for unarmed attacks (at least when using a striking skill; not sure about unskilled fighting).

2. In any case, off-hand only applies to a single-hand attack - the bite never suffers the off-hand penalty, and if making three attacks (bite/claw/claw) only one claw might suffer off-hand penalty (see 1).

3. Ambidexterity removes the off-hand penalty for all uses, but per 1 is not needed for striking with a Brawling attack.

4. Yep! Extra Attack gives one extra strike with a limb not used by another attack that round (unless modified with Multistrike), and can be combined with Dual-Weapon Attack or Rapid Strike. DWA also needs to be made with two different limbs, so to combine DWA with normal EA requires 3 available striking limbs - not a problem for this bear. For a Swashbuckler with a Rapier, Main-Gauche and unmodified EA, he'd need to use Rapid Strike to hit three times with the two weapons.

I would add that DnD assumes a much longer turn length than GURPS's 1 second. As such, even though mundane bears in DnD may be given three attacks per round, this doesn't mean they should necessarily have the same attack rate in GURPS. See the Bear statistics in the Basic Set (pg 456) for an example.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by optimu555

1. dose the normal off hand rule apply to him

Yes, the normal off-hand rules apply to all GURPS characters.

However, unarmed combat per Basic Set does not have an off hand penalty, so that's not an issue for combat.

Originally Posted by optimu555

2. if so what is his "off hand"? is the bite attack his "main weapon"

His choice of left or right paw. A bear's mouth would not be treated as a hand. There is no concept of "main weapon" in GURPS. The bite would most likely be made using Brawling skill, though Karate with the Born Biter perk or simply DX are also possible.

Originally Posted by optimu555

3. if so when he takes ambidextrous dose it apply to... what attack

Ambidexterity would eliminate any penalties for using his off paw. This is probably not useful most of the time, since as noted above the penalty does not apply to unarmed fighting (unless you're using certain optional rules in Martial Arts.) and any non-combat manipulation he probably will prefer to do with his primary hand in human form.

Originally Posted by optimu555

4. if he has extra attack advantage at least 1 lvl can he combine bite + 2 claw attack using dual attack. or with extra attack lvl 2

Each level of Extra Attack gives you an additional attack. You can split up one of your attacks using Rapid Strike or similar means. So with Extra Attack 1 he could bite at full skill and strike with a paw at full skill, bite at full skill and strike with both paws as a dual attack, or strike with one paw at full skill and dual attack with the other paw and his bite. With Extra Attack 2 he could bite and strike with each paw at full skill.

Do note that that would mean he's making 3 attacks per second, which is to say the bear is going to be moving very very fast.

[optimu555]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

4. Yep! Extra Attack gives one extra strike with a limb not used by another attack that round (unless modified with Multistrike), and can be combined with Dual-Weapon Attack or Rapid Strike. DWA also needs to be made with two different limbs, so to combine DWA with normal EA requires 3 available striking limbs - not a problem for this bear. For a Swashbuckler with a Rapier, Main-Gauche and unmodified EA, he'd need to use Rapid Strike to hit three times with the two weapons.

I

Multistrike ? is that an advatages ? if so what book? cant find it in basick set at least

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by optimu555

Multistrike ? is that an advatages ? if so what book? cant find it in basick set at least

It's a special +20% Enhancement for the Extra Attack Advantage.

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by optimu555

Multistrike ? is that an advatages ? if so what book? cant find it in basick set at least

It's in Martial Arts, I believe. It's pretty common (in my group at least) to combine multistrike with one skill only (which happens to be -20%, so ends up being a wash).

[aesir23]

I would hesitate to try and duplicate the way bears work in D&D, GURPS combat is a lot less abstracted.

It is important to consider that a GURPS round is 1 second, and a D&D round is 6 seconds. Characters can do less each round because each round is shorter. I however find this much more satisfying, because every attack and every defense is described in detail and all of your choices have realistic consequences.

The traditional bear attack is a two armed grapple in round 1 (grappling with both hands counts as just 1 attack) and a bite attack against the grappled opponent (who now has limited defenses) in round 2. You can accomplish this in 1 round with All-Out-Attack (Double) or Rapid Strike (-6 to skill).

IRL, when a bear swipes at someone to damage them rather than just to grapple, they generally do it with just 1 paw at a time. One claw filled paw powered by 500 lbs of bear is PLENTY.

If you really need to hit someone with both claws simultaneously, I'd recommend Dual Weapon Attack (-4 to each attack, but with a penalty to parry).

[optimu555]

Originally Posted by aesir23

I would hesitate to try and duplicate the way bears work in D&D, GURPS combat is a lot less abstracted.

It is important to consider that a GURPS round is 1 second, and a D&D round is 6 seconds. Characters can do less each round because each round is shorter. I however find this much more satisfying, because every attack and every defense is described in detail and all of your choices have realistic consequences.

note it is a player as in has IQ of 10 and dose not the the normal in stings of a normal bear

i totlay agre. and i don't like the fact with extra attack lvl 2 the rules allow a player 2 make FULL ****ing attack with no defense penalty. sure with all out attacks at least then you have NO deference at least

with the rules in gurps its bit to easy to kill some one in one round :S

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by optimu555

note it is a player as in has IQ of 10 and dose not the the normal in stings of a normal bear

i totlay agre. and i don't like the fact with extra attack lvl 2 the rules allow a player 2 make FULL ****ing attack with no defense penalty. sure with all out attacks at least then you have NO deference at least

with the rules in gurps its bit to easy to kill some one in one round :S

You're the GM, best get used to saying "no" to players. It is not a good idea to allow every option in every GURPS game.

Because GURPS is designed to cover so many different games and scenarios, it's important that the GM set boundaries.

Also keep in mind that Extra Attack lvl 2 costs 50 points. That's a lot of points that could have been spent elsewhere on equally powerful abilities: if he wants to be the lightning bear than he's probably neglecting his character in other areas.