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Old 10-12-2018, 02:21 PM   #51
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Misc. Spell questions

I.e. Club skill is free (don't leave home without it), while adding the Mace skill takes 1k XP. At standard XP levels for an active adventurer that's two years of game time.
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Old 10-12-2018, 02:37 PM   #52
Skarg
 
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I.e. Club skill is free (don't leave home without it), while adding the Mace skill takes 1k XP. At standard XP levels for an active adventurer that's two years of game time.
Good point.

It seems to me the place where logic starts breaking down is that a club doesn't require a talent but a mace does, and the only difference is damage done.
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Old 10-12-2018, 03:06 PM   #53
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Good point.

It seems to me the place where logic starts breaking down is that a club doesn't require a talent but a mace does, and the only difference is damage done.
I was a bit confused about what Hcobb was proposing/suggesting before. I also forgot that Club was free.

A mace is a good bit heavier than a club. I'd think your attacks would be a bit slower and therefore would need to be a bit more intelligent/planned. Therefore, it makes sense to me to have to practice with a Mace (to learn Ax/Mace). I would allow someone to skip any of the basic weapon talents and go straight to Expert or Master if they had a teacher.

Last edited by platimus; 10-12-2018 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 03:26 PM   #54
Helborn
 
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Default Re: Misc. Spell questions

Skarg, you misunderstood me. What I was saying is that because Club is listed among Ax/Mace, once you have the Ax/Mace Talent and then become Expert(Ax/Mace) you are Expert at Clubs, Small Ax, Mace, Morningstar and every other weapon listed in the Table under Ax/Mace.

Yes, you DO have to take the Ax/Mace Talent before you can become an Expert with clubs even though you can use clubs without taking the Ax/Mace Talent.

You do not have to (in fact cannot) take Expert(Clubs), Expert(Mace), Expert(morningstar), etc.
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Last edited by Helborn; 10-12-2018 at 05:46 PM. Reason: corrected statement
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Old 10-12-2018, 05:02 PM   #55
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Default Re: Misc. Spell questions

I'm okay engaging in the rules fiction that there is a "clubs" talent which everyone has, rather than that no such talent exists or needed. Or alternately that the prerequisite is waived when no such talent exists. Yeah, it's wrong, but then you can let your player become a club expert directly, if they should wish to do so.

The question I would ask myself is whether such a move would give the player an *advantage* in any sense; that is, are there situations where a club is better than a mace? Because I'm less likely to allow such a dodge if clubs aren't strictly worse.
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Old 10-12-2018, 05:06 PM   #56
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Default Re: Misc. Spell questions

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The question I would ask myself is whether such a move would give the player an *advantage* in any sense; that is, are there situations where a club is better than a mace? Because I'm less likely to allow such a dodge if clubs aren't strictly worse.
"A giant? Just a giant? Bring it on man!"

"The giant has a mace."

"Run away!"

BTW: Wait until the victim has acted and summon an illusion of a wolf behind them. The wolf engages the victim in HTH combat which has no disbelieve option.
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Old 10-12-2018, 05:45 PM   #57
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BTW: Wait until the victim has acted and summon an illusion of a wolf behind them. The wolf engages the victim in HTH combat which has no disbelieve option.
Hmmm. The Wolf Illusion can't do anything the turn it is created. And next turn..... who knows.....
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Old 10-12-2018, 05:54 PM   #58
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Hmmm. The Wolf Illusion can't do anything the turn it is created. And next turn..... who knows.....
Wolf is at +4DX for a taking the victim from the rear so will act before the victim can disbelieve.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:01 PM   #59
Helborn
 
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are there situations where a club is better than a mace? Because I'm less likely to allow such a dodge if clubs aren't strictly worse.
ITL 122

"A club or bludgeon is nothing more than a heavy chunk of wood, possibly embellished with a spike. It is a comparatively ineffective weapon, being blunt and badly balanced – but wielding a club requires no special skill whatsoever. Anyone can do it. The club is thus the preferred weapon of giants, ogres, Neanderthals, and anyone forced to improvise. The damage that a club does is based on the user’s ST. Refer to the Combat with Bare Hands, Daggers, Cestus, or Club table (below). The damage shown on that table, plus 3, is the damage a fighter with a club does in regular combat. If
the club is used two-handed, as a maul, add 4 instead of 3."

In Death test 1, the Giant, at the end, PP 161 does 3+3 with his club, i.e. the damage of a Battle Axe +3. According to the table, if the damage was based on strength alone (with no weapon skill) the damage should be 1+6. There is your difference. A trained fighter will do the damage according to the weapon table using a club, while an untrained fighter will do damage according to the ST table.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:02 PM   #60
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Obviously the Thorsz will not employ even Giants who are not trained......
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