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Old 05-20-2018, 12:33 PM   #1
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default [Basic, Martial Arts] Default techniques for a defaulted skill?

If you have a defaulted skill, with no points spent on it, can you use techniques of that skill at their defaults? Obviously, you can't improve those techniques without buying the skill, but are they usable at their default level?

The case where I noticed this is a character with Guns (Pistol) at 18 (DX+5), and Guns (Rifle) defaulted to that, at 16 (DX+3). His IQ-based Guns (Rifle) would be 19 (IQ+3), which would give a useful default in Precision Aiming (Rifle) of 13, if that default exists at all.

Basic Set p.229-30 isn't clear on this point as far as I can see, and nor is Martial Arts p63-64. Does this fall under the no double defaults rule?
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Old 05-20-2018, 01:52 PM   #2
Gollum
 
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Default Re: [Basic, Martial Arts] Default techniques for a defaulted skill?

The first answer who comes to my mind is no. No, someone who doesn't have one point in the skill cannot have the technique by default. Especially for combat skills because combat skills don't have any default level! Even Brawling.

Having said that, I don't see why someone totally untrained couldn't try to use a motion picture camera if he can use a camera or try to hit someone with his elbow or his knee if he can try to punch or kick him ... The penalties are high enough to make the difference with someone trained.
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: [Basic, Martial Arts] Default techniques for a defaulted skill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
If you have a defaulted skill, with no points spent on it, can you use techniques of that skill at their defaults? Obviously, you can't improve those techniques without buying the skill, but are they usable at their default level?

The case where I noticed this is a character with Guns (Pistol) at 18 (DX+5), and Guns (Rifle) defaulted to that, at 16 (DX+3). His IQ-based Guns (Rifle) would be 19 (IQ+3), which would give a useful default in Precision Aiming (Rifle) of 13, if that default exists at all.

Basic Set p.229-30 isn't clear on this point as far as I can see, and nor is Martial Arts p63-64. Does this fall under the no double defaults rule?
While GURPS Basic Set p.229-230 isn't as clear as might be wished, p. B330, which indexes Double Defaults, notes that double defaults are allowed for techniques and disallowed for skills.

My reading of p. B230 is that you only have access to all the default techniques if you have a full point in the skill. I would interpret that to mean that you might have access to some techniques at default even if you only know the skill at default, but which, if any, techniques would be at the GM's discretion, and presumably based on what it seems reasonably might be possible to try undertaking without training.

I'm a bit dubious about your example. Yes, Guns (Rifle) defaults to Guns (Pistol)-2, but only if both fire the same ammunition, have the same action and use the same grip, none of which is likely to be true. Going from say, a HP Browning pistol firing 9mm Parabellum to an M16 rifle firing 5.56mm NATO, would default to Guns (Pistol) at -2 for being a different weapon type, a further -2 for an unfamiliar weapon type, no penalty for action (the GM feels the pistol's blowback action is "close enough" to the single shot self-loading" action of the M16, but there would be a -2 when bursts or full automatic fire is attempted), -2 for going from to holding it by the pistol grip to holding it by the pistol grip and forestock while attempting to brace it with the sling, and finally no penalty for differing TL (both are TL7 weapons) for a net default of Guns (Pistol)-6, taking your example from 16 [DX+5] to 12 [DX-1]. Floating his default skill Guns (Rifle) to IQ gives 15 [IQ-1] to and, if allowed, the default Precision Aiming technique would be Guns (Rifle) (IQ-based)-6 for 6-.

I don't have the write-up for Precision Aiming, but 6- sounds fair enough that I'd probably call it something you could try "straight out of the box." Other GMs might rule differently, however.
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Old 05-22-2018, 04:12 PM   #4
johndallman
 
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Default Re: [Basic, Martial Arts] Default techniques for a defaulted skill?

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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
I'm a bit dubious about your example. Yes, Guns (Rifle) defaults to Guns (Pistol)-2, but only if both fire the same ammunition, have the same action and use the same grip, none of which is likely to be true.
Those are all familiarity penalties. The character in the example is thoroughly familiar with rifles, it's just that the abstractions of the GURPS Guns skill make it most efficient to stack all your Guns points into something that has good defaults to the other weapons you're likely to use. And Pistol is the one that's hardest to get bonuses for.
Quote:
I don't have the write-up for Precision Aiming, but 6- sounds fair enough that I'd probably call it something you could try "straight out of the box." Other GMs might rule differently, however.
The Precision Aiming technique is actually in High-Tech, pp 84 and 251, which you may have. Many people don't notice it there, so it was reprinted in Tactical Shooting and Gun-Fu.
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:52 AM   #5
RogerBW
 
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Default Re: [Basic, Martial Arts] Default techniques for a defaulted skill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
If you have a defaulted skill, with no points spent on it, can you use techniques of that skill at their defaults? Obviously, you can't improve those techniques without buying the skill, but are they usable at their default level?
My feeling is yes, on the basis that "It is a specific action covered by the parent skill, studied on its own." Your culturally-imbued default skill value shouldn't stop covering something that the skill covers, just because there's a technique in it.
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