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Old 06-21-2021, 11:15 AM   #11
WingedKagouti
 
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Default Re: Transient Advantages

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Originally Posted by RedMattis View Post
Also players can 'accidentally' break the system by creating a mega-rich guy and later deciding to buy every fancy gadget (cybernetic or not) at the fancy high-end shop.

Anyway, that's what I meant with striking a balance, and what that balance is depends on the campaign's theme.
Your job as a GM in these situations is to make sure the player gets to benefit from having bought these gadgets at least some of the time, but also set up situations where the gadgets either can't be brought (security checkpoints) or won't do anything to solve whatever is going on (like a social encounter).

As you note, there's always the campaign option of "No high wealth characters allowed". And this might even be far more appropriate than anything else talked about in this thread. Why would the ultra rich guy ever willingly be hanging out with street level thugs. And why wouldn't those thugs try to extort their way into wealth by threatening to kill the ultra rich guy. A more realistic interaction between the groups would be the ultra rich guy hiring the thugs through one of his employees and never being in direct contact with them.
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Old 06-21-2021, 11:57 AM   #12
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Default Re: Transient Advantages

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Your job as a GM in these situations is to make sure the player gets to benefit from having bought these gadgets at least some of the time, but also set up situations where the gadgets either can't be brought (security checkpoints) or won't do anything to solve whatever is going on (like a social encounter).
I mean, that is what Rich Mc. Richguy paid Rank, Legal Immunity, or whatever to be able to do. And heck, even if that happens half the time, it is basically still a several-thousand gadget-power armor with a ~20% limitation of "can't legally bring this into some places".

But otherwise, yes, that was pretty much what I said to begin with. It is my job to stop players from overshadowing the rest of the party, and the best way is typically by forbidding that sort of thing in the first place.

Possibly by f.ex. forcing Rich Mc Richguy to have functionally -1 vow quirk "don't get implants or buy state-of-the-art power armor" if that sort of thing would be way above the power-level of the rest of the party. Whatever solution fits to keep things in order.
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Old 06-21-2021, 01:03 PM   #13
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Default Re: Transient Advantages

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I mean, that is what Rich Mc. Richguy paid Rank, Legal Immunity, or whatever to be able to do. And heck, even if that happens half the time, it is basically still a several-thousand gadget-power armor with a ~20% limitation of "can't legally bring this into some places".
And it isn't like security is going to say "Oh, that cannon is built into your arm? Go on through, then."
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Old 06-21-2021, 03:22 PM   #14
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Default Re: Transient Advantages

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... It is my job to stop players from overshadowing the rest of the party, and the best way is typically by forbidding that sort of thing in the first place.

Possibly by f.ex. forcing Rich Mc Richguy to have functionally -1 vow quirk "don't get implants or buy state-of-the-art power armor" if that sort of thing would be way above the power-level of the rest of the party.
Why would power armor exist at all in setting where you don't want it?
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Old 06-21-2021, 07:41 PM   #15
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In my campaigns of the past, not GURPS campaigns, the PCs got a big reputation by killing off big threats to the people and being recognized for it. So reputation just went with what they were doing. Status rarely came into play except that they rarely knew how to act around a King and inevitably got themselves into trouble by not acting correctly.

Rank though did come up and mainly in the context of a cleric wanting to advance up the priesthood. We roleplayed the advancement. With his wealth acquired adventuring he built a magnificent temple, and of course became it's high priest. He hobnobbed with the priestly hierarchy etc... The issue was what if he wanted to become bishop or archbishop. We had to just roleplay it. With GURPS in theory the rank could be bought. So I see buying a rank as the opportunity to achieve to rank is presented in game and the player can seize it or take his character points back. It's not automatic but it's reliable if the "cleric" paid his dues.
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Old 06-21-2021, 09:08 PM   #16
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Why would power armor exist at all in setting where you don't want it?
Perhaps the military uses powered armor?

Perhaps it can be used in frontier situation. Perhaps something like the planet in "Deathworld".

Think about modern-day US. What if you dressed up in military armor with a couple of longarms (perhaps an assault rifle with a grenade launcher and a LAW on your back)? Would you expect to be questioned if you walked down main street? Perhaps in Washington DC?

Yes, realistically, there would be places and times where powered armor can get you in trouble.
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Old 06-21-2021, 11:14 PM   #17
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I think Ally advantage is more like "the PC gets this help whether I want them in the sessionor not".

If they have an "ally" who is not an "Ally" then you have the freedom to have them bail any time during the session, but if they rolled FOA then as GM you have an obligation to keep them around for the adventure to help and must send something to kill them off if you need them out of the way.
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Old 06-22-2021, 12:40 AM   #18
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Default Re: Transient Advantages

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Perhaps the military uses powered armor?

Perhaps it can be used in frontier situation. Perhaps something like the planet in "Deathworld".

Think about modern-day US. What if you dressed up in military armor with a couple of longarms (perhaps an assault rifle with a grenade launcher and a LAW on your back)? Would you expect to be questioned if you walked down main street? Perhaps in Washington DC?

Yes, realistically, there would be places and times where powered armor can get you in trouble.
Exactly. And if Mc Rich actually buys Military Rank, Reputation, or other advantages to cover being able to bring military equipment into restricted areas then he actually might have an easier time getting into places than the guy with a big built-in arm-cannon and no holdout skill, despite paying less for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook
Why would power armor exist at all in setting where you don't want it?
Just to build on what DangerousThing said, some player characters might not be able to even put on a suit of power-armor. Uplifted animals that just don't fit because of body-shape, hovering Med-Bots with True AI and a low level of "DR (Cannot Wear Armor)", or whatever.

This isn't a problem without solutions, but it is something to be aware of.

--------

Personally, in my cinnematic Sci Fi I build even robots without Cannot Wear Armor DR. My explanation would be that even the big war-bots can have their armor plating removed, and in that case we might as well consider it equipment. I also use Extra-Arm (Weapon Mount) instead of innate attack if the character basically just uses a standard weapon. Innate Attack is still used for Psionics and such, but that kind of abillity has a huge suprise factor, so it works out.
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Old 06-22-2021, 01:22 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Emerikol View Post
In my campaigns of the past, not GURPS campaigns, the PCs got a big reputation by killing off big threats to the people and being recognized for it. So reputation just went with what they were doing. Status rarely came into play except that they rarely knew how to act around a King and inevitably got themselves into trouble by not acting correctly.

Rank though did come up and mainly in the context of a cleric wanting to advance up the priesthood. We roleplayed the advancement. With his wealth acquired adventuring he built a magnificent temple, and of course became it's high priest. He hobnobbed with the priestly hierarchy etc... The issue was what if he wanted to become bishop or archbishop. We had to just roleplay it. With GURPS in theory the rank could be bought. So I see buying a rank as the opportunity to achieve to rank is presented in game and the player can seize it or take his character points back. It's not automatic but it's reliable if the "cleric" paid his dues.
I tend to use a version of the "Buckets of Points" from Pyramid #3/65 and it saves a lot of headaches for me. I highly recommend downloading it. Basically Buckets of Points divides your points in whatever way the GM decides so you might have 150 point characters with 1 bucket of 50 for advantages 1 bucket with 50 points for attributes and the remainder free to use wherever. Or however else the GM decides.

The way I divide them is into Intrinsic and Ephemeral traits - what you've called here Transient (so I'll stick with your wording). My litmus test is if the character were to be transported naked with no equipment to another world, would they still have the trait (advantage or disadvantage)? So Allies are transient as are Enemies. Wealth, reputation, duty, legal enforcement powers - all transient. The main difference is that Transient traits have no plot protection. You lose or gain them due to game events and character actions. These Transient points do not in any way affect the Intrinsic points and nether do the Intrinsic points affect the Transient. Essentially, if I'm running a 150 point game, those points are Intrinsic and the Transient will be dealt with separately.

So, for a blue-collar type game I might say "balance your Transient traits at 0 with no more than 10 points in Transient disadvantages." This gets you the Yuppie trying to keep up appearances with a crippling amount of debt (Status and wealth positive with debt to balance) and the set musician you is struggling to get by but has a great reputation with the bands and bar owners of the city they live in, and so forth. These type of characters. For more white collar I'd up it to no more than 10 points with 10 points of disadvantages. You scale up from there.

Now, I have a great group. This means that I can usually trust them to just come up with a background and I may not even have to balance anything. If I do and a player comes up with a great concept that breaks the point limit first I see if it'll unbalance anything gamewise, if it doesn't then I ask the opinion of the group. If they're OK with it, then I am.

In this way I don't have to worry about traits that can disappear or worry about points when the players do something very smart and gain a reputation or kill off their enemy. Or get Wealthy - just keep in mind that Wealth is a lot more than just money.

Just lets me roll with it.
- Shane
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Old 06-22-2021, 05:00 AM   #20
Emerikol
 
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Default Re: Transient Advantages

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So, for a blue-collar type game I might say "balance your Transient traits at 0 with no more than 10 points in Transient disadvantages." This gets you the Yuppie trying to keep up appearances with a crippling amount of debt (Status and wealth positive with debt to balance) and the set musician you is struggling to get by but has a great reputation with the bands and bar owners of the city they live in, and so forth. These type of characters. For more white collar I'd up it to no more than 10 points with 10 points of disadvantages. You scale up from there.

Now, I have a great group. This means that I can usually trust them to just come up with a background and I may not even have to balance anything. If I do and a player comes up with a great concept that breaks the point limit first I see if it'll unbalance anything gamewise, if it doesn't then I ask the opinion of the group. If they're OK with it, then I am.

In this way I don't have to worry about traits that can disappear or worry about points when the players do something very smart and gain a reputation or kill off their enemy. Or get Wealthy - just keep in mind that Wealth is a lot more than just money.

Just lets me roll with it.
- Shane
So I've had the same thought. I'm thinking 125 points to start the game and mentally I'm thinking 25 points per "level" when determining threats etc... I realize there are no levels in GURPS but I'm just figuring out threat levels etc for the group.

My way of breaking that down was....
1. 100 points is your past life. Spend at least 80 on stats. The other 20 can be spent on anything. I allow 50 points in disadvantages so in theory up to 70 in advantages. At this point I imagine only a limited amount is spent on skills.
2. I will use the system we discussed for limits on stat advancement. +2 or double your initial buy whichever is greater. So buying good stats early is important for at least a lot of characters.
3. The extra 25 points are spent as if you had gotten them through advancement. So most of the points are in skills or mutable traits (advantages/disadvantages).

I'm still on the fence about starting at 125 or 150. If 150 the extra 25 go with the 25 in step 3. I like starting low and advancing up.

Just to keep my thinking straight and to port over some NPC concepts I've had from That Other Game, I think in terms of levels but I realize with GURPS the power curve is far flatter most of the time. But whatever my starting value each "level" after that is 25 more points. So 125 is kind of an elegant number. 20th level is 600 points. 100 + 20 * 25. 10th level is 350. You get the idea.
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