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Old 10-25-2020, 07:46 AM   #21
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Swinging from the sidelines

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Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
TBH, I have never agreed with the +4 DX to hit a 'prone' figure... not as a universal rule, anyway.

Yes, it is easier for a standing figure to hit someone who has been knocked prone directly in front of them, and yes, it is easier to hit someone that you are locked in HTH with because you are already in physical contact with each other, but I would not grant the bonus to an archer firing from more than 10' away because in that situation, the prone figure is actually a smaller target. I would also not grant it to a standing figure attacking someone engaged in HTH with another character because they are effectively making a 'called shot' to try and hit one specific target who is rolling around on the ground, partially obscured by his opponent who you presumably don't want to hit.
As far as archers (and perhaps thrown weapons) go, not giving the bonus might be consistent with RAW. The bonus is in terms of every hexside counting as a rear hexside, but missile weapons (and perhaps thrown weapons) don't get facing bonuses. So I'm with you there.

Your comments on striking into a hex with figures fight HTH amounts precisely to my suggested house rule Adj. It's clearly not consistent with RAW which explicitly includes the DX +4 bonus on p. 117, but obviously I agree with the reasoning.
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Old 10-27-2020, 01:12 PM   #22
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Swinging from the sidelines

Which is why I eliminate roll to miss and it's just a roll to hit at adjDX zero.

Roll full DX (+4) for the first goblin, then adjDX zero to hit the second goblin, then adjDX zero to hit your buddy.
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Old 10-27-2020, 01:29 PM   #23
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Swinging from the sidelines

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Which is why I eliminate roll to miss and it's just a roll to hit at adjDX zero.

Roll full DX (+4) for the first goblin, then adjDX zero to hit the second goblin, then adjDX zero to hit your buddy.
So, by adjDX 0, you mean one hits only on a critical success, hence about 5% of the time, right?

In that case, if a DX 10 figure swings into a one-on-one fracas, he has about a 0.5% probability to accidentally strike his buddy, dropping to 0.25% at DX 11 or higher.

The odds are still too low for my tastes, lower in fact than RAW. I was complaining about 1% for DX 10 and your fix halves that.

Unless, of course, I've misread what you mean by "adjDX zero".

Last edited by phiwum; 10-27-2020 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 10-28-2020, 08:05 PM   #24
TedT
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Default Re: Swinging from the sidelines

I've had trouble with the RAW, since those on page 116 differ from those on page 117, when it comes to striking into multiple HTH combat. On page 117, the character standing above the HTH mob, if he has to eventually roll to miss his friend(s), "rolls - same DX adjustments [as rolling to hit the foes] - to see if he hits Ragnar." This appears then to be suggesting hitting Ragnar is determined as a straight attack. If the striker has a DX 14, he hits Ragnar on a 18 or less (+4 for attacking into HTH). But on page 116, the rules state quite specifically that our character "must roll ... to miss each friendly figure in that hex." Not the same thing. Page 116 makes more sense: there it's got you with your adjDX of 18 easily missing hitting your friend. Is the wording on page 117 to be ignored? Am I missing an element in all this?
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Old 10-29-2020, 05:49 AM   #25
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Swinging from the sidelines

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Originally Posted by TedT View Post
I've had trouble with the RAW, since those on page 116 differ from those on page 117, when it comes to striking into multiple HTH combat. On page 117, the character standing above the HTH mob, if he has to eventually roll to miss his friend(s), "rolls - same DX adjustments [as rolling to hit the foes] - to see if he hits Ragnar." This appears then to be suggesting hitting Ragnar is determined as a straight attack. If the striker has a DX 14, he hits Ragnar on a 18 or less (+4 for attacking into HTH). But on page 116, the rules state quite specifically that our character "must roll ... to miss each friendly figure in that hex." Not the same thing. Page 116 makes more sense: there it's got you with your adjDX of 18 easily missing hitting your friend. Is the wording on page 117 to be ignored? Am I missing an element in all this?
I think that "roll to see if he hits" is colloquial English while "roll to miss" is a technical term. Every time you roll the dice to hit or to miss, your "seeing if you hit" (as well as seeing if you miss). That discrepancy in language I attribute to informal writing on p. 117 and technical writing on p. 116.
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Old 10-31-2020, 03:48 AM   #26
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Swinging from the sidelines

The Seven Percent 16.7% Solution

I've come up with this as a uniform solution to the separate but similar problems of unintended targets in both ranged attacks and HTH combat. I wrote it for another system, but it translates easily into TFT house rules. It is on the simple side, coming down to only one or two dice rolls in most situations, and at most 3 rolls under any circumstances -- I was going for playability, speed, and ease of understanding for new players. Despite which I think the odds of striking or shooting your friends or unintended targets are a little more realistic than the RAW.

IN RANGED ATTACKS
Determine the line-of-fire normally, hex center to hex center. Determine the normal adjDX for the shot under regular circumstance (for range and other situational bonuses and penalties). Then, charge -1 DX for each intervening figure standing in the way of the target. For example, if there are 3 intervening figures, that's an extra -3 adjDX. If the attacker makes their roll, the target is hit, and you're done in one roll.

If the target is missed solely due to the adjDX penalty for intervening figures, then there is a possibility of hitting one of the intervening targets. If the roll to hit was missed by a larger margin, then the shot sailed passed the target and only figures in the line-of-fire beyond the intended target are at risk.

For intervening figures, simply roll 1d6. On a 1, the figure closest to the target, friend or foe, got hit. On a 2 you hit the second closest to the intended target, etc. If there are 6 intervening figures, the odds become 100% that one of them will be hit, and if there's only one such figure the odds fall off to 16.7%. If the number rolled exceeds the number of intervening targets, the shot sailed past all of them and the originally intended target.

When the shot gets passed the intended target, also roll 1d6 if there are more potential targets in the line-of-fire. If there is a standing figure that many hexes beyond the intended target, friend or foe, that figure is hit. Yes, anyone more than 6 hexes passed the original target is safe. Each eligible figure on either side of the intended target, be they friend or foe, has a 16.7% chance of being hit.

STRIKING INTO A HTH COMBAT HEX
There is no +4 DX bonus for trying to strike a prone figure, due to the complication of aiming into a pile of thrashing figures. The number of 1-hex figures in a HTH combat hex is also limited to seven (7) figures. The attacker makes a normal roll against their adjDX to hit the desired target. If that roll misses, consider the other counters in the pile to be numbered from top to bottom, from 1 to the maximum of 6. Roll 1d6, and the number that comes up is the figure hit, friend or foe. If the number rolled exceeds the number of figures, no one got hit.

NOW COMBINED: FIRING INTO A HTH COMBAT HEX
Any ranged attack (missile or thrown weapon) into a HTH combat hex is at an additional -2 adjDX, unless the attacker it standing immediately adjacent to that hex. If the attacker is further away, AND there are intervening figures in the line-of-fire, there is again (as above) a -1 DX penalty for each intervening figure, cumulative with the -2 just mentioned. If the attacker makes this adjDX roll, the intended target in the HTH combat is hit, and you're done in one roll.

Exactly as above, if you miss the roll solely due to the DX penalty for the intervening (standing) figures, you must roll 1d6 to see if you hit one of them. If you missed your original target, and missed any and all standing figures that were in the way, your shot or thrown weapon goes into the HTH combat hex. Again, consider the counters in the pile numbered from top to bottom (excluding the intended target you already missed) and roll 1d6 to see if you hit anyone, friend or foe. Anyone in the HTH combat stands a 16.7% chance of being hit when the intended target and any intervening figures have been missed, and there is a 100% chance somebody will get hit if there are 6 figures beside the intended target in that hex.
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Last edited by Steve Plambeck; 10-31-2020 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 10-31-2020, 11:25 AM   #27
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Default Re: Swinging from the sidelines

My fix unifies blind, invisible, and unintentional targets.
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