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Old 10-14-2020, 08:25 AM   #1
Terquem
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Idaho Falls
Default Weapons, Strength, and Damage

I've been struggling to process what I see as an unusual and unnecessary dichotomy in the rules as I apply campaign building ideas to my setting.
There are rules for various damage done based on ST in HtH, and then there are rules for ST requirements for types of weapons, but it seems that only one of these approaches is needed.
The reason this is troubling me is because of the additional DX applied if a figure uses a weapon that they do not have the required ST for. This is not logical, to me, because every type of intelligent creature capable of making and using weapons would make weapons that they would be able to use. Even a ST 6 toad-folk creature would be proficient with a spear if spears were part of their culture. Yes, the spear would be small and due to the lower ST of the creature the damage would be less than a spear wielded by a ST 9 human.
So, how different would the game be if weapon damage was by ST, as it is in HtH, but varied by weapon base type and there were no DX penalties associated, since every creature/culture that uses weapons can make weapons they can use effectively?
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Old 10-14-2020, 08:30 AM   #2
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Weapons, Strength, and Damage

That more integrated system you seem to be suggesting sounds basically how GURPS works. Is that what you have in mind?
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Old 10-14-2020, 08:32 AM   #3
Terquem
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Idaho Falls
Default Re: Weapons, Strength, and Damage

Not quite, I think. Something simpler. Keep the ST weapons column, apply the damage modifier as stated, but just ignore the DX penalties for having a lower ST
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Old 10-14-2020, 09:26 AM   #4
hcobb
 
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Weapons, Strength, and Damage

I'm already dealing with players who design characters around using under-ST weapons as is. The problem is the extra point of barehands damage ITL WRT weapons damage.
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Old 10-14-2020, 10:14 AM   #5
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Weapons, Strength, and Damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terquem View Post
I've been struggling to process what I see as an unusual and unnecessary dichotomy in the rules as I apply campaign building ideas to my setting.
There are rules for various damage done based on ST in HtH, and then there are rules for ST requirements for types of weapons, but it seems that only one of these approaches is needed.
The reason this is troubling me is because of the additional DX applied if a figure uses a weapon that they do not have the required ST for. This is not logical, to me, because every type of intelligent creature capable of making and using weapons would make weapons that they would be able to use. Even a ST 6 toad-folk creature would be proficient with a spear if spears were part of their culture. Yes, the spear would be small and due to the lower ST of the creature the damage would be less than a spear wielded by a ST 9 human.
So, how different would the game be if weapon damage was by ST, as it is in HtH, but varied by weapon base type and there were no DX penalties associated, since every creature/culture that uses weapons can make weapons they can use effectively?
I faced a similar problem. I had some priests who would use ceremonial maces as weapons, but the typical priest didn't have enough ST to wield a mace. I decided that the ceremonial mace as smaller and did damage appropriate to a hammer.

Just rule that the spears are smaller and act like a weapon of the appropriate strength. I'd adjust the length to one hex as well, but that's up to you.

That is, I think, the easiest solution. You want halflings using broadswords? Well, fine, so long as the broadsword is sized appropriately, in which case it will be more like a rapier or even dagger in terms of damage but not in terms of shape.

(Terquem's suggestion is reasonable as well. Probably keeps the average damage similar to my suggestion, but increases the odds of getting 0 damage from an attack. The philosophical difference is more significant, I think. The under-ST adjustment is supposed to represent wielding a too-large weapon, whereas my solution is to wield the right-sized weapon, but smaller than other weapons of the same type.)
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Old 10-14-2020, 01:26 PM   #6
tcr25
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Hyattsville, Maryland
Default Re: Weapons, Strength, and Damage

It's going way back, but Space Gamer #27 has an article "Weapons for Hobbits" in it about halfling-sized/-strength weapons for Melee. In it, a halfling's two-handed axe is about the equivalent of a ITL hatchet for damage and ST required, a quarterstaff does 1d-1 instead of 1d+2 with ST 7, etc.
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Old 10-14-2020, 01:52 PM   #7
Jeff Lord
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Weapons, Strength, and Damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terquem View Post
The reason this is troubling me is because of the additional DX applied if a figure uses a weapon that they do not have the required ST for. This is not logical, to me, because every type of intelligent creature capable of making and using weapons would make weapons that they would be able to use.
So the ST 11 folks would make (or have made) the shortswords and spears that they were able to use. The ST 13 folks would make the bastard swords and halberds. This is quite logical.

I think the rules are there to simulate what happens when a ST 9 figure picks up a weapon made for a ST 11 (12, 13, whatever) when nothing else is available and they don't want to simply punch.
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Old 10-14-2020, 02:05 PM   #8
Terquem
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Idaho Falls
Default Re: Weapons, Strength, and Damage

I think there is definitely a place for a "wrong sized weapon," rule, from giant sized clubs to pixie sized halberds.
But, I see no reason why a halfling society would be prohibited from having halfling sized halberds doing damage based on the basic halberd, adjusted for reduced strength and suffering no DX penalty for use by a talented halberd figure.
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Old 10-14-2020, 04:42 PM   #9
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Weapons, Strength, and Damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terquem View Post
I think there is definitely a place for a "wrong sized weapon," rule, from giant sized clubs to pixie sized halberds.
But, I see no reason why a halfling society would be prohibited from having halfling sized halberds doing damage based on the basic halberd, adjusted for reduced strength and suffering no DX penalty for use by a talented halberd figure.
You mean something like:

Halfling Halberd, ST 11, 1d+1
Light Halfling Halberd, ST 9, 1d-1

?
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Old 10-14-2020, 04:50 PM   #10
Terquem
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Idaho Falls
Default Re: Weapons, Strength, and Damage

No, not exactly.
A halberd is ST 13, 2d, right

So a halfling has a halberd made for her.

Her ST is 10
Her weapon would be 2d-1 or 2d-2, depending on what "round damage down" means. And there would be no DX penalty assuming she had the pole arm talent (lack of talent is the only precursor I would apply a negative DX with)

Now the whole thing is falling apart in my head. If you have a ST of 14 you don't do more damage, right?
It seems that weapon damage should never have been tied to weapon type but should have, from the beginning been tied only to ST and weapon type should have been used for all other rules not directly related to doing damage

Last edited by Terquem; 10-14-2020 at 05:04 PM.
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