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Old 01-25-2013, 10:07 AM   #1
Jasonft
 
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Default Pros and cons of growing your own island nation?

My Supers GM never should have challenged us to break his game...

I got to thinking about a few alternates to my current character in a 500 pt GURPS Supers game and I realized some of the truly horrible things I could do with a wizard build on that many points. Specifically where he would call home.

Assuming you had the means and the ability to hold the necessary spells active for long enough (at 500 points? Hah!) how long would it take you to grow an island up from the bottom of the ocean somewhere out in the middle of the Pacific? Once you had it above water, what sort of difficulties would you have declaring that island a sovereign nation assuming you were smart enough to place it outside of anyone's territorial waters?

(Island grown through extended duration Volcano spell most likely - unless someone has a better idea.)
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:43 AM   #2
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Pros and cons of growing your own island nation?

The problem isn't declaring yourself to be a sovereign nation. You can make all the declarations you like. The problem is getting states and organizations (like the UN) to recognize you as such.

In theory, all you need is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montevideo Convention
ARTICLE 1

The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: a ) a permanent population; b ) a defined territory; c ) government; and d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.
But whether or not you can be an effective state, in practice and not just in the letter of international law, has a lot more to do with the behavior of all the other states.

On the bright side, you've got a whole super-team to enforce or defend your sovereignty. But then, maybe supers aren't uncommon in your setting, and all the other states have them, too -- which puts us right back where we started.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: Pros and cons of growing your own island nation?

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But whether or not you can be an effective state, in practice and not just in the letter of international law, has a lot more to do with the behavior of all the other states.
Make yourself useful in some way to one of the big powers, and get them to recognize you, and you've gone a long way toward it. If your world is like the real one of today politically, if you can get the USA, most of Europe, and China to recognize you, you're most of the way home.

Make a point of not being a thorn in the side of the big powers, and they might grant your recognition almost as a routine matter...unless your display of raw power in making the island has convinced everyone that you're a threat that has to be destroyed.

That could go either way, the recognition of that power might lead to respectful acceptance, or it might lead to all-out-attack.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Pros and cons of growing your own island nation?

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Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
Make yourself useful in some way to one of the big powers, and get them to recognize you, and you've gone a long way toward it. If your world is like the real one of today politically, if you can get the USA, most of Europe, and China to recognize you, you're most of the way home.

Make a point of not being a thorn in the side of the big powers, and they might grant your recognition almost as a routine matter...unless your display of raw power in making the island has convinced everyone that you're a threat that has to be destroyed.

That could go either way, the recognition of that power might lead to respectful acceptance, or it might lead to all-out-attack.
I think the most useful thing an island maker could do for other countries is either produce more resources or territory (or even make land bridges). If you put points into bio magic maybe you can even produce super soldiers for countries... Might want to look into wide spread protection if magic isn't common
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:24 AM   #5
Johan Larson
 
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Default Re: Pros and cons of growing your own island nation?

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
The problem isn't declaring yourself to be a sovereign nation. You can make all the declarations you like. The problem is getting states and organizations (like the UN) to recognize you as such.

But whether or not you can be an effective state, in practice and not just in the letter of international law, has a lot more to do with the behavior of all the other states.
I think this new nation is going to need at least one major power (US? Europe? China?) to back its claims to legitimacy, and none of the others particularly opposed.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:56 AM   #6
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Default Re: Pros and cons of growing your own island nation?

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I think this new nation is going to need at least one major power (US? Europe? China?) to back its claims to legitimacy, and none of the others particularly opposed.
Japan. Propose to make more such islands to it in exchange for recognition of some of your own. AFAIK they would be interested. The question becomes regarding the ratio.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:16 AM   #7
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Default Re: Pros and cons of growing your own island nation?

If you could make an island could you also make it with copious natural resources? I imagine that you'd be well recognised if your island was rich in minerals though it would pay not to mention this until you have a population and infrastructure since I doubt world powers would blink at annexing it if they only had to deal with a small party of people.

In terms of populating your island the citizens of a number of island nations are looking for a new home due to their islands being flooded by rising sea levels. Assuming you had sufficient politics and diplomacy you could try and transfer much of their population and infrastructure to your new island nation (assuming its creation didn't further flood their old homes). Once settled having the citizens and infrastructure of existing nations essentially merge into yours would make recognition much easier.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: Pros and cons of growing your own island nation?

Come to think of it, perhaps agreeing to increase the size/height of an island which is being flooded might be a way to 'buy' a government of your own instead of making it from scratch.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:38 AM   #9
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Default Re: Pros and cons of growing your own island nation?

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
But whether or not you can be an effective state, in practice and not just in the letter of international law, has a lot more to do with the behavior of all the other states.
Yeah. I think the behavior of other states is far more important in this matter. Let's say for a second that your Island Grower grows an island and puts some refugees on it, but otherwise has no power worth noting. There's no resources, no airport, no dock facilities, nothing worth trading. I'm sure nations might wave their hands and say "Sure, whatevs man, you're a country." If you do have valuable resources or useful people, but no power worth speaking of, they'll likely say that you're not a nation, and plop some "peacekeepers" there and allow some big country to exploit your resources. On the other hand, if you populate it with mutant cyborgs and military installations sufficient to deter an attack and have useful resources and are willing to trade and play ball and make some other countries wealthy provided they cooperate, then you're a real country and you get a seat at the big boy's table. If you have all of the above without a willingess to play ball, then you're a rogue nation.

How useful is your little island to other countries? How useful is it to acknowledge your little island as a country? How easily can some big political bully knock your little island country down?
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:25 AM   #10
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Default Re: Pros and cons of growing your own island nation?

With the Compartmentalized Mind (noncombat) (100 castings/second), couldn't he just drop millions of cubic metres of earth from high up, devastating any major city? I mean, no nation would refuse to recognize his legitimacy if he threatened to bury their capitals.

Even if he's not a villain, no one is going to risk pushing him. I mean, what can they do? Surround the island with ships? I doubt even aircraft carriers can survive a hundred tons of rock raining down from the stratosphere.
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