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06-08-2021, 11:12 AM | #1 | |
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
This recent thread on Flashbangs/Stun Grenades has gotten me thinking about the rules for said devices, specifically this part:
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For a HT10 NPC, that's what...a 5% chance to succeed? In my personal RL experience, normal folks usually recover from the effects of Flashbangs sometime around the 6 second mark, give or take. When PCs have used them in action games, rarely do the NPCs ever pass the HT -5 roll, and the PCs end up being able to act with impunity for way longer than they should. Has anyone out there had the same experience? Do any of you GMs have special house rules for stun grenades? Do your players ever even employ them? |
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06-08-2021, 11:38 AM | #2 | |
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
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To be honest the only issue with Stun Grenade that I see is that it has zero crushing explosive damage, so it cannot take advantage of High-Tech's optional rules for explosions in interiors. Stingballs are superior in that regard, because they come with effects of flashbang AND release shrapnel AND cause cr ex damage.
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Your level of GURPS proficiency: Pedestrian: 3e vs 4e Proficient: Early 4e vs Late 4e Master: Kromm vs PK GURPS: Shooting things for fun and profit |
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06-08-2021, 12:41 PM | #3 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
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FWIW, I wasn't complaining about the mechanical potency, just that it normally will take a $hit-ton of rolls for a HT 10 person to succeed on a HT-5 roll. For $hits and giggles, I just did some test rolls for 4 HT 10 NPCs. Here's how many rolls/seconds it took for them to recover from the standard Stun Grenade in High Tech: 1st NPC: 15 rolls/seconds 2nd NPC: 21 rolls/seconds 3rd NPC: 48 rolls/seconds 4th NPC: 07 rolls/seconds I get that data is anecdotal, but it pretty much mimics the experiences I have had in actual games. NPCs that get flashbanged are DONE unless they have one or more of the following:
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06-08-2021, 12:55 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
Just as technicallity most soldiers will have Fit and the +1 to HT-based rolls in that AD counts for this case.
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Fred Brackin |
06-08-2021, 01:08 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
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Taking NPCs more than 10 seconds to un-stun is the intended behavior. It's a device meant for that. Considering it takes a long time to bring the grenade into play, and then capitalize on it's effects, it's more than fair from game perspective.
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Your level of GURPS proficiency: Pedestrian: 3e vs 4e Proficient: Early 4e vs Late 4e Master: Kromm vs PK GURPS: Shooting things for fun and profit |
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06-08-2021, 03:46 PM | #6 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
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If your experience is more recent, that could explain the difference in potency. BTW, your blog is high-speed. Keep it up. Quote:
Also, in the games I've run, my PCs only really deployed bangers when they had time, and never really while under fire or out in the open. Giving the badguys 3 - 4 seconds of dumping fire on you while you prep a banger never seemed to be a smart play, so they didn't do it. |
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06-08-2021, 04:44 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
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It's a quirk of GURPS, players are able to make decisions outside of time, and when actions do unfold, they really feel more like slow motion. Even with your IRL experience of 6 seconds, they can enter (1), aim (2), controlled vitals pair (3), drop gun on sling (free), Draw cigarette (4), Draw Lighter (5), Flick lighter open as a free action and light the cigarette up (6). Mission accomplished before the baddies were even half-way to sane. Best way to combat that is to use counter-assault tactics, rather than rely on beefiness of your bad guys. Bottom line, bad guys value their eyes and thus wear ballistic sunglasses (+5 to resist) and value their ears and thus wear Tactical Headsets (+5 to resist). Or they start listening in for the stack approaching and force them to roll stealth if they don't want to be counter-assaulted. Then it stops being a routine of stack, toss, shoot unmoving lads, a quick way for things to go boring.
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Your level of GURPS proficiency: Pedestrian: 3e vs 4e Proficient: Early 4e vs Late 4e Master: Kromm vs PK GURPS: Shooting things for fun and profit |
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06-08-2021, 04:47 PM | #8 | |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
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The Path of Cunning. Indexes: DFRPG Characters, Advantage of the Week, Disadvantage of the Week, Skill of the Week, Techniques. |
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06-08-2021, 08:43 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
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A flashbang have 3 effect :
Location would also count a lot, I think. There should be a huge difference between a flashbang detonating a few meter above a crowd in the outside, or a more powerful one point blank inside a room. Last edited by Celjabba; 06-08-2021 at 08:55 PM. |
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06-08-2021, 01:12 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
With effective HT 5, the chance to recover within 6 seconds is around 25%. This jumps to 44% for HT 6, 65% for HT 7, 83% for HT 8, 94% for HT 9, and 98% for HT 10.
An active-duty soldier is likely to have effective HT 11 or 12 prior to the penalty (as noted, the bonus from Fit applies). So, leaving things as-is (HT-5 to recover), that means around a 50% chance to recover within 6 seconds. Change the penalty to recover to -4, that jumps to somewhere around 70%. An alternative would be a +1 to recover per previous attempt (which I believe recovering from surprise uses). So if it's HT-5 to recover the first second, then HT-4, then HT-3, etc, then an HT 10 character is looking at around an 83% chance to recover within 6 seconds, an HT 11 one is looking at around 93%, and an HT 12 one is looking at around 98%.
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action, tactical shooting |
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