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Old 05-03-2012, 07:21 PM   #41
roguebfl
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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Originally Posted by wellspring View Post
Or... you get the modern equivalent of sumptuary laws, where there are designs that smart fabrics aren't allowed to imitate. Or maybe they only can after a waiting period, or government approval, or some speed bump so that the fashion is over before the synthetics catch up. If you think that's unlikely, look at margarine. For years it was an ugly blue color.... because the dairy lobby convinced the government that it was fraudulent to color it like butter.
That just applying Intellectual Property law to designs, and requiring smart clothes to respect DRM. (not that DRM has to be set for open content designs)

While also simply applying Impersonating an official laws like you do to costumes of uniforms.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:14 PM   #42
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I disagree slightly with this. There are numerous health effects from long-term zero gravity living, some of which could be addressed by drugs or body modifications. For example, loss of bone mass can be mitigated by frequent exercise and special diets, and recovery can be aided by drugs and various therapies. In short, it's plausible to prevent, or at least minimize, the long-term health risks of living in zero gravity; it's comparitively implausible to efficiently create and direct gravitational waves.
But spin 'gravity', OTOH, isn't implausible at all, and artificial 'gravity' would not necessarily have to involve actual gravity at all, in superscience terms, any more than nuclear reactors run on phlogiston.

The thing is that humans are fundamentally lazy, exercise is time consuming, and we're evolved, physically and psychologically, for a weighed environment.
If there's a way to get 'gravity', it'll almost certainly be used.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:17 PM   #43
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Problem draining lymphatic fluid, sinus clogging, lack of taste/smell, kidney stress, bone and muscle loss, upset intestinal flora/fauna increasing infection risks.... etc.
These are the problems known from the absolute fittest people. What would go wrong with the merely fit let alone average or sickly is anybody's guess.
The problems of zero g are enormous and numerous. You would realistically need a huge pharmacy to cope with it for the medium term. The long term would be life shortening and not pleasant.
Ironically, in the 'golden age' of SF, it was widely assumed by many writers that microgravity would and low gravity would turn out to be good for you, a classic example of speculation based on no evidence.

(Though in fact we lack much data on long-term exposure to gravity intensities between 1G and 0G, so we can't say for sure if there might not be advantages at some levels.)
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:23 PM   #44
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
Ironically, in the 'golden age' of SF, it was widely assumed by many writers that microgravity would and low gravity would turn out to be good for you, a classic example of speculation based on no evidence.

(Though in fact we lack much data on long-term exposure to gravity intensities between 1G and 0G, so we can't say for sure if there might not be advantages at some levels.)
I'm all for lower gravity being less of a strain, especially for the frail. Exactly where beneficial meets detrimental is the stuff of "out of thin air" guessing.
More than 0.2 but less than 1.0, and the healthiest for one person may not be the same gravity point as for another person.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:26 PM   #45
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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...
The thing is that humans are fundamentally lazy, exercise is time consuming, and we're evolved, physically and psychologically, for a weighed environment.
If there's a way to get 'gravity', it'll almost certainly be used.
And it is prolonged zero g that destroys. Temporary jaunts away from spin gravity stations would be perfectly safe and realistic.
Also, for game purposes, it's good to play up the differences between it and "real" gravity.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:28 PM   #46
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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Even more important than pockets is that clothing is a signal of status. In game terms, even people in a true, according-to-hoyle classless meritocracy will want to benefit from the bonuses that come from Fashion Sense. But very few societies are truly classless.
Compared to historical societies we are seeing a lot more perpendicular-to-status fashion within a given society that isn't based on practicality which makes things a lot more. This horizontal fashion makes things a lot more varied.

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Of course, clothes that drape in free-fall will be a problem. But smart fabrics can compensate for that. Imagine a skirt that shifts around to preserve modesty and keep the fabric "hanging" correctly.
That would be an interesting challenge. The fabrics would have to be quickly adjusting while still retaining the correct colour and texture and possibly would have to respond to the positioning and orientation of viewpoints around the wearer. I suspect that it would also be necessary to look like it was natural moving and still retain some hints of freefall movement with the comparatively expensive versions.

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Instantaneous communication and large modifiable clothing wardrobes on demand can lead to fashions that literally are "so yesterday".
Or cause most people to rapidly burn out. Perhaps fashion is a thing of the young and the dedicated. The progress of current fashion through a group might be more regular. First the bleeding edge people adopt something. Then it goes to those below them in adoption speed who just finished wearing something ten generations of fashion ago above them. It might take a while (Comparatively.) to work all the way down.

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Originally Posted by wellspring View Post
Or... you get the modern equivalent of sumptuary laws, where there are designs that smart fabrics aren't allowed to imitate. Or maybe they only can after a waiting period, or government approval, or some speed bump so that the fashion is over before the synthetics catch up. If you think that's unlikely, look at margarine. For years it was an ugly blue color.... because the dairy lobby convinced the government that it was fraudulent to color it like butter.
Or to borrow more from sumptuary laws only some people can have their smart fabrics imitate anything.

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Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
Ironically, in the 'golden age' of SF, it was widely assumed by many writers that microgravity would and low gravity would turn out to be good for you, a classic example of speculation based on no evidence.

(Though in fact we lack much data on long-term exposure to gravity intensities between 1G and 0G, so we can't say for sure if there might not be advantages at some levels.)
It's based on a reasonable basis and probably is good for you. You just have to find the optimal spot.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:35 PM   #47
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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Or to borrow more from sumptuary laws only some people can have their smart fabrics imitate anything.
Leading to visits from the literal "Fashion Police":
"Sir, our records indicate that you wore an unlicensed suit from the Spring 2203 Noir catalog. Please disable all Augmented Reality and Smart Matter devices and come with us."
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:37 PM   #48
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One thing that's never had good research done on is how much G do you need to get rid of the 0G problems. Will a tenth do?
Excellent question. Your guess is just as good as anyone else's, including the space medics, because we literally have almost no data on which to make an evaluation.

We have some fairly extensive data on the effects of free fall (on long term, those effects are very bad, short term not so much), with the experiences of Skylab, Mir, the ISS, Gemini and Apollo, etc.

OTOH, when it comes to the effects of gravity when present but not at 1G, we have a tiny sampliing of short-term data at 1/6 G, from the Apollo missions, and...well, that's pretty much all we have. That's not enough data to do anything other than speculate (or more honestly, wild-ass guess).

This is one of the huge elephants in the room in discussions of human activities off Earth, by the way.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:42 PM   #49
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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It's based on a reasonable basis and probably is good for you. You just have to find the optimal spot.
To be brutally realistic, the most likely optimal spot is probably 1G, because that's our native environment.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:46 PM   #50
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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Originally Posted by vierasmarius View Post
Leading to visits from the literal "Fashion Police":
"Sir, our records indicate that you wore an unlicensed suit from the Spring 2203 Noir catalog. Please disable all Augmented Reality and Smart Matter devices and come with us."
No more than a process server is a police officer.you will not be arrested you will be given notice of a lawsuit.

Well assuming that copyright laws don't get more draconian.
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