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Old 09-17-2021, 09:56 AM   #1
Kallatari
 
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Default Technical Grappling - Stuck in the Middle of a Tug-Of-War

Something came up in one of my games and I was wondering how people would address it.

In a middle of a battle with giant spiders, one character fell into a spider web - effectively Binding with Sticky - and was bound to it; using the Technical Grappling rules I rolled the web's grappling for the CP of the grapple, which determined what penalties the trapped adventurer had.

The character stuck to the web (i.e, the victim), rather than trying to pull herself out, continued to attack the spiders (with the appropriate penalties based on the CP currently suffered). Another character (i.e., the rescuer), meanwhile, not wanting to risk touching the web carefully grabbed the victim on the opposite side and tried to pull her out of the web, while the victim continued to fight. [It's a game with kids; they certainly don't make the same decisions my adult players make in their games]

So how do you game this?

My first thought would have been to just add their BLs together to get effective ST and use that for rolling the CP on the Break Free attempt, but since the victim wasn't even trying to break free and had no coordination with the rescuer whatsoever, I didn't think that would apply here.

I therefore had the rescuer "grapple" the victim, and roll for CP to see how well the rescuer was holding onto the victim... and this likewise penalized the victim's abilities to continue to attack the spiders while both being pulled and stuck to the web.

Otherwise, the only thing I could think of was to allow an "indirect" attack of the grapple. By holding onto the victim which was stuck to the web, I let the rescuer attack the web-victim grapple. But should there be a limit here; maybe cannot afflict more CP than the CP the rescuer has on the victim to show how strongly he can pull her out (otherwise, the rescuer would do minimal CP so as to not hamper the victim attacking the spiders)? Should there be a penalty on the grappling attack roll since the rescuer doesn't have a direct link to the victim/web grapple? Is this just "Disarming" or its own unique technique? Any other thoughts?

The above in-game scenario of course led me to thinking how would you game a tug-of-war with a person in the middle. For example, the two orcs warriors each want the princess as their prisoner, so they each grab and arm and try to pull her out of the arm of the other orc? What would be the mechanics? Would the princess suffer any injuries in the process? And how do you determine the level of injury?
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Old 09-17-2021, 11:03 AM   #2
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Technical Grappling - Stuck in the Middle of a Tug-Of-War

TG didn't always get to the core of keeping it simple and fast in play.

For "pulling the person out of the spider web," I'd definitely just apply CP rolled by the puller directly against the web's grapple. Control Resistance on the part of the web would be important here, or else it would simply be inevitable that the person is eventually extracted from said web. That might be exactly what's desired, though.

For tug-of-war, I suspect that - in Fantastic Dungeon Grappling terms, it's a contested Frog March. You roll to see if you can move the monkey in the middle one hex to you; the foe can spend CP to make that not happen. Maybe get a free CP roll each turn to always have currency to spend. Basically, this is an AoA Double, one of which is "roll CP" the other is "Shoving People Around," which is what Frog March is in Fantastic Dungeon Grappling.
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Old 09-17-2021, 01:34 PM   #3
Kallatari
 
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Default Re: Technical Grappling - Stuck in the Middle of a Tug-Of-War

Hi Doug :)

For the record, I know I said it before, but sometimes it's good to hear again: I love TG, and once you are familiar with it, I find it actually plays well and fairly quickly. I do use the Fantastic Dungeon Grappling for the table relating to the effects of CP on a victim (as opposed to the TG method), but otherwise continue to use the rules in TG. Once you've wrapped your brain around it, it's very simple mechanics -> Grappling does CP in damage, you have a "grappling damage table" that indicates the resulting penalties. Trying to force your victim to move in a certain way are contests of ST, and you can spend CP to get bonuses.

If you recall during the playtest, I loved throwing in the really extreme cases just to see how it would work, and I find it handled it all well. But despite all the weird edge cases I played around with, I still occasionally stumble upon something that's outside the usual box that even I didn't think of before because it's unlikely to come up (but that in all parts of GURPS, not just TG).

And for the first time since TG came out, I actually have a PC in one of my campaigns who specializes in the grappling and pretty much only uses grappling. It's a monk martial artists in a fantasy game with a vow not to use weapons, and they've started fighting enemies that he can no longer harm with simple punches and kicks (without doing Power Blow, etc., which are limited by FP). So he just grapples as many enemies as he can (one in each arm, one with a leg, etc.), throws them around to control the battlefield, and pins them down for his allies to finish off with their magical weapons. The player is having a blast with it.

I know I've told you this before, but TG was a great product, as are the improved simplifications brought in by Fantastic Dungeon Grappling. Maybe not perfect - nothing is - but still great. So don't feel bad about anything that may have not been included. Keeping it simple and fast is an issue of familiarity (and Fantastic Dungeon Grappling gives the even faster method).


Anyway, as to your answers to my questions, I concur with what you have for obtaining the end results, and mostly did it that way in play. I'm just trying to think of the additional implications of those actions to the person in the middle. For example, if the rescuer pulls on the victim in the web enough to remove 6 CP of the web's grapple, what does that do to the victim in the web? I would think being pulled - even by an ally helping - would at least give a penalty to their actions. So what is that penalty?

- Should the victim receive a temporary penalty to his actions based on those 6 CP that "travelled through him"? Therefore every turn the penalty is different based on the CP roll of the rescuer.

- Should the rescuer have to first grapple the victim in the web for a number of CP, which determines the penalty the victim gets? To make it a worthwhile having a better grip (rather than trying to minimize the penalty you are imposing on your ally), the maximum amount of CP he can remove from the web-grapple in a single pull cannot exceed his own grip on the victim.

- Is there a point where the victim in the middle suffers damage from being pulled on both sides? With the princess example, on the game map the princess is bouncing back and forth between two hexes, but in reality it more likely she's standing between the two hexes with arms pulled each way. At what point does the tug of war indirectly turn into a Wrench (Arm) - especially if supernaturally high ST scores are involved.
I realize this is a bit overkill in details for a game (see, there can be more complicated than Technical Grappling ;) ). For my in-game problem I simply made a GM decision (puller's CP reduce web's grapple) and we moved on, so it's not a pressing issue for me, but I am curious about what else I could have done, and what the impacts might have been (could the rescuer have harmed the victim trapped in the web by trying?). So basically, this is more of a thought exercise/discussion to see what could have happened/how else it could have been done rather than something I need an immediate solution to.
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Old 09-18-2021, 09:47 AM   #4
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Default Re: Technical Grappling - Stuck in the Middle of a Tug-Of-War

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Originally Posted by Kallatari View Post
I therefore had the rescuer "grapple" the victim, and roll for CP to see how well the rescuer was holding onto the victim... and this likewise penalized the victim's abilities to continue to attack the spiders while both being pulled and stuck to the web.
The rescuer isn't trying to impede their rescuee though, so they could probably opt to do a 0 CP grapple (edit: nm noticed you highlighted this below)

The point of holding them is simply to use them to do referred actions (break the web's grapple impeding the rescuee without direction touching that web)

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Otherwise, the only thing I could think of was to allow an "indirect" attack of the grapple. By holding onto the victim which was stuck to the web, I let the rescuer attack the web-victim grapple.
This seems similar to how it's possible to break someone's grip on a weapon by only touching the weapon and not the hand holding the weapon. IE the difference between TG13's "Grabbing the Foe" vs "Grabbing the Object"

In the case of this example I am imagining the spider's binding as "the foe" and your ally trapped in the web as "the object".

Or conversely, how you can effectively grapple a hand without touching it (by grappling a weapon the hand holds) or grapple an arm without touching it (by grappling a shield strapped to it) per TG12's "Seizing a Weapon or Object"
Control Points applied to a weapon affect the weapon and the limbs grasping it.
A weapon grabbed in two hands is treated as part of both hands;
a shield strapped to an arm is integral to the arm.
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But should there be a limit here; maybe cannot afflict more CP than the CP the rescuer has on the victim to show how strongly he can pull her out
(otherwise, the rescuer would do minimal CP so as to not hamper the victim attacking the spiders)?
That could also be represented as simply building CP and then spending it to influence a contest.

You could spend the CP immediately as you acquire it (quick jerks) which would not impede them, or save up the CP until it's high (maxed out?) to get a HUGE bonus to a contest, but temporarily impede them?

Basically to use referred CP (ie 'I have 10 CP on your weapon so by extension 10 CP on your hand")

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Should there be a penalty on the grappling attack roll since the rescuer doesn't have a direct link to the victim/web grapple?
Seems a lot like TG13's "Gimme That" but weirdly inverting the object (web) as the 'grappler' and the person (ally) as the object/weapon.

Since a Binding/Web doesn't have a "hand" I'm not sure if the "Grip CP is reduced by the HP
lost until the injury is healed" would apply to the Binding... Binding doesn't traditionally have HP anyway but the way how B40 describes Penetrating Damage (Binding DOES have DR) as reducing ST makes the ST seem to function like pseudo-HP.

Reducing ST would already reduce max CP so having it reduce grip CP based on injury too could risk being "double-dipping" though, if you were to combine them I would say to reduce grip CP first and THEN reverse the maximum, which should prevent the double-dip.

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Is this just "Disarming" or its own unique technique? Any other thoughts?
Disarms are strikes that bypass grappling. I hadn't thought about using them in place of a Break Free to make people drop stuff besides weapons but conceptually I don't see why it couldn't be allowed.

IE if I can smack some ogre's whip to make a whipper lose the grip on the whip, then if they were holding an elf by the ankles, couldn't I smack the elf to make the ogre lose the grip on the elf?

In that case though you should naturally be able to use "Retain Weapon" to keep your grip on the elf, which is complicated because TG39 says that defaults to a weapon skill.

Probably the closest match would be a stance like "everything can be wielded as an improvised buckler" since B375 has a "you can block with his body" policy for anyone you're capable of lifting. Applying at least -2 to the buckler/shield for this use sounds appropriate since -2 is what I recall seeing for other improvised weapons.

There might be other weapon skills that could apply, like an ogre swinging a limp elf might work like an improvised flail, or an ogre swinging a rigid elf (rigor mortis?) might function like an improvised club?

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The above in-game scenario of course led me to thinking how would you game a tug-of-war with a person in the middle. For example, the two orcs warriors each want the princess as their prisoner, so they each grab and arm and try to pull her out of the arm of the other orc? What would be the mechanics? Would the princess suffer any injuries in the process? And how do you determine the level of injury?
This is one of the reasons I've always thought there should be some inherent risk of applying crushing damage any time someone uses high amounts of control points.

Like for example: in GURPS terms you can grapple someone by the neck and then use the "pickup" technique to lift them off the ground, without any risk whatsoever of harming them, even though realistically that's going to injure and asphyxiate your average human.

This is why when you see it done in realistic fiction, the person grappled by the neck will grapple the forearm of the person lifting them by the neck: it takes some weight off the neck and eases the breathing.

It's not just the neck though: being dangled for awhile by a single foot is going to risk injury too, something you learn when even double-ankle-dangles on an inversion table begin to feel stressful.

My guess is prolonged dangling by a single wrist is going to damage that wrist (or even the shoulder). This is usually avoided if you're voluntarily dangling because your grip will naturally loosen on a chinup bar to avoid that happening (finger flexors tire before wrist ligaments tear)

That's something along the lines of -damage over time by merit of gravity- since obviously being lifted by your neck on the moon isn't going to be as much of a problem to tolerate. Both for damage but also fatigue over time, sustaining strange postures.

In the case of a tug of war it's something other than gravity, but year, orcs pulling a princess by the arm to get her to go someplace (wheter it's lifting her off the ground, or pulling her away from a 2nd orc) should have some risk of injury eventually, the trick would be coming up with mechanics for calculating it.
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Old 09-18-2021, 07:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: Technical Grappling - Stuck in the Middle of a Tug-Of-War

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Originally Posted by Kallatari View Post
I therefore had the rescuer "grapple" the victim, and roll for CP to see how well the rescuer was holding onto the victim... and this likewise penalized the victim's abilities to continue to attack the spiders while both being pulled and stuck to the web.
This seems logical, but I'd require a straight Grappling roll by the rescuer since the trapped character is thrashing around.

If you want to be really evil, possibly have the rescuer make a DX roll to avoid getting one or both of their hands stuck to the web or treat the results of a badly failed grapple as getting stuck.

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Originally Posted by Kallatari View Post
The above in-game scenario of course led me to thinking how would you game a tug-of-war with a person in the middle. For example, the two orcs warriors each want the princess as their prisoner, so they each grab and arm and try to pull her out of the arm of the other orc? What would be the mechanics? Would the princess suffer any injuries in the process? And how do you determine the level of injury?
The person in the middle could easily suffer severe damage if they are pulled in opposite directions by strong foes.

For example, I once tried to rescue a mouse from a cat's jaws. Unfortunately, the cat really wanted that mouse, so even with gentle pulling on my part we each temporarily ended up with half a mouse. (I was gracious in defeat, however, and gave my half to the cat.)

More seriously, people were historically executed by being torn apart by horses, ships, or bent saplings. People still suffer dislocated joints when they try to hold on to heavy falling or moving objects or as a result of being yanked around during domestic disputes.

I'll defer to Doug on a TG solution, but it's obvious that most of the force applied against an opposing grapple pulling the victim in the opposite direction also applies to the victim.

One possibility is to use a variation on the Slam rules to determine how much damage the victim suffers:

The victim must roll a Quick Contest of ST or HP, whichever is better, vs. the grapplers' combined ST.

Roll once when the force is applied and once per minute thereafter.

Failure means that they suffer the equivalent of Slam damage based on (Attackers' combined HP x combined Move in opposite directions)/100.

If attackers are essentially stationary, the victim just takes damage equal to (Attacker's Combined HP x 1)/100.

Double damage if victim rolls a Critical Failure or loses the Quick Contest by 10+.

If damage is less than 1d, treat fractions up to 0.25 as 1d-3, fractions up to 0.5 as 1d-2, and any larger fraction as 1d-1. Otherwise, round fractions of 0.5 or more up to a full die.

Damage is treated as whole body damage for Diffuse or Homogeneous victims. For other victims damage treat it as crushing damage applied to one or more grappled hit locations or to an adjacent joint.

Damage over time counts as a single injury to determine if a body part is Crippled, but not to determine if it is actually dismembered.

Special Cases

Dismemberment: As long as the victim is still alive or not completely destroyed all but the most fragile objects have DR for "structural integrity" equal to HT to avoid actual dismemberment, but not crippling damage to grappled limbs. HP damage to the grappled part subtracts from HT when determining effective DR to avoid being torn apart down to a minimum of 0.

Furthermore, as long as damage doesn't exceed effective DR for structural integrity, the victim can't take more than damage to a given body part than is required to Cripple it. Damage in excess of that needed to cripple that body part is applied to another grappled hit location instead. If there are no hit locations left uncrippled, excess damage is lost.

Living creatures which fail a HT roll to remain alive, or inanimate objects reduced to 0 HP or less, due to damage from being pulled apart can be assumed to be torn apart as they die.

Protective Gear: If the victim is wearing a Sealed suit of armor substitute its ST, HP, and HT. It's effective DR is that of the weakest part of the entire suit (typically the joints). The wearer is only at risk of injury once the armor fails.

Example 1:

ST 10 man vs. ST 3 cat with ST 1 mouse in the middle. The mouse automatically fails its ST roll vs. combined ST 13 by 10+.

Cat and human are more or less stationary, so mouse takes (10 + 3 x 1) /100 HP damage x 2, or .26, which is 1d-2 HP of damage. Since the cat previously did 1 HP of cutting damage to it, and takes 1+ points of damage from combined grapple attacks, the mouse is reduced to -HP x 2 or x3, fails a HT roll to survive, and is torn in half as it dies.

Example 2:

Two ST 21 horses vs. ST 10, HT 10 human victim tied to one horse by his leg, the other horse by his arm (there are two other horses pulling on the opposing arms and legs, but they are ignored for this example). The horses are straining against each other and have effective combined Move of just 1. The human rolls a 10 (success by 0) vs. a roll of 12 (success by 10+) by the horses so damage is doubled. He suffers (42 x 1)/100 x 2 = 0.84 points of damage. This is treated as 1d-1 HP of crushing damage to his arm. He takes 2 HP of damage, not enough to cripple or dismember it.

The horses continue to strain, however, so the victim must roll another Quick Contest every minute. Eventually he takes enough damage that both his arm and leg are crippled. Since he remains alive, however, he has effective DR 10 each turn to avoid having his limbs actually torn off takes only HP/2+1 damage to each crippled limb. This means that the horses are unlikely to actually tear him to pieces unless he suffers cutting damage to his limbs or dies. He could remain alive, but in agony, for hours, while the horses futilely tug on his limbs.

(This example was based on descriptions of the execution of the French regicide Robert-François Damiens.)

If each horse had been whipped to a gallop (Move 10) before the slack on the chains holding the victim's limbs was taken up, he would initially take ((21 x2) x (10 x 2)/100 x 2 = 8.2, rounded down to 8d damage. In addition to instantly crippling both limbs, the damage could easily exceed the victim's "structural integrity" DR of 10 (average damage 28 HP) to avoid actual dismemberment.

This explains why "wild horses" were used to perform such executions.

Example 3:

Two ST 11 orc vs. ST 9, HT 11 princess. Each orc has grappled an arm and are tugging in opposite directions making them effectively stationary.

For the first contest the princess rolls a 7 and the orcs roll a 12 (with combined ST 22). The princess loses the contest by 10+ and takes double damage. She suffers (22 x 1)/100 = .22 or 1d-3 HP of damage to one of her arms. She is unlikely to suffer HP damage, just minor bruising. If the orcs continue to struggle for a minute or more, she might eventually take enough damage to sprain or dislocate a shoulder or wrist, but never enough to tear her apart.

The same logic could be applied to grappling attacks against fixed inanimate objects, like a giant pulling a tree up by the roots, a superhero ripping a stop sign from its base, or just a human pulling a weed. In such cases, however, just use the attacker's ST and Move vs. the victim's ST and HT. Only massive damage in well in excess of the victim's HT will be sufficient to uproot it.

Last edited by Pursuivant; 09-18-2021 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 09-19-2021, 03:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: Technical Grappling - Stuck in the Middle of a Tug-Of-War

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Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
I'll defer to Doug on a TG solution, but it's obvious that most of the force applied against an opposing grapple pulling the victim in the opposite direction also applies to the victim.

One possibility is to use a variation on the Slam rules to determine how much damage the victim suffers:

The victim must roll a Quick Contest of ST or HP, whichever is better, vs. the grapplers' combined ST.

Roll once when the force is applied and once per minute thereafter.

Failure means that they suffer the equivalent of Slam damage based on (Attackers' combined HP x combined Move in opposite directions)/100.
I'd prefer some kind of "per second" situation.

What if we just made a low-damage "wrench limb" some kind of mandatory unavoidable component of all grappling maneuvers: you can try to lessen the damage by taking penalties but otherwise there's an inherent risk of injury to dragging people around.

Another interesting thing to compare is that Basic Set's traditionally non-injurious Judo Throw was given an option to injure at -1 on MA75

This works like most crushing wounds except it can be reduced via the Breakfall technique like fall damage.

I get that high skill can be used to maximize injury and force of a fall (ie accelerate them down with your weight, don't just let them fall purely from gravity) but I'd def like to assume basic fall mechanics (even if it's just a 1-yard fall) including damage from judo throws, and add this on top of it (Suplex City!)

Conversely, some kind of "sacrificial breakfall" or "sacrificial roll with blow" might be used to do a "I'm flipping you onto the ground but somehow not damaging you" think.

in some cases that might risk injuring the person you're saving too, like "I stopped your head from smacking the concrete by pulling up on your arm, but accidentally dislocated it in the process"
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Old 09-25-2021, 04:47 AM   #7
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Default Re: Technical Grappling - Stuck in the Middle of a Tug-Of-War

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What if we just made a low-damage "wrench limb" some kind of mandatory unavoidable component of all grappling maneuvers: you can try to lessen the damage by taking penalties but otherwise there's an inherent risk of injury to dragging people around.
That's my thought as well. There should be damage unless you're intentionally doing something to not do damage your target, perhaps at a skill penalty or the sacrifice of control points. I'm just not sure how to model it yet.

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I get that high skill can be used to maximize injury and force of a fall (ie accelerate them down with your weight, don't just let them fall purely from gravity) but I'd def like to assume basic fall mechanics (even if it's just a 1-yard fall) including damage from judo throws, and add this on top of it (Suplex City!)

Conversely, some kind of "sacrificial breakfall" or "sacrificial roll with blow" might be used to do a "I'm flipping you onto the ground but somehow not damaging you" think.
I have implemented the automatic judo throw gives falling damage in my games, and the subject needs to make his own Breakfall roll to lessen that damage. I ruled it as being a fall equal to half the "current height" (i.e., take into account kneeling, etc.) of the thrower, or half the height of the victim, whichever is greater. That requires a lot of ballparking the height, but that's fine. For the typical standing humans, I use 1-m (or 1 yard) as the default, even thought it's technically slightly more than half their height.

I never contemplated a way for the thrower to "hold back" and prevent a full fall, but I think I would make it as a penalty to skill as well. And maybe have a required follow-up action: e.g., your still holding onto your foe to prevent him from hitting the ground, therefore you must kneel down to still be able to reach him, and if you want to let go you need to do it next turn.
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Old 09-25-2021, 12:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: Technical Grappling - Stuck in the Middle of a Tug-Of-War

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That's my thought as well. There should be damage unless you're intentionally doing something to not do damage your target, perhaps at a skill penalty or the sacrifice of control points. I'm just not sure how to model it yet.
In a realistic "I don't want to hurt the person as I drag them" you might for example drag them by 2 arms instead of 1 arm because that spreads out the force needed to pull them between two limbs.

That or maybe drag them by the shirt so that the pulling force is applied to the torso.

This is of course ignoring other things that can damage people being dragged, such as friction of point of contact with rough ground (assume you're being dragged across ice, for example, instead of gravel) that outright carrying avoids.

I don't even know if control points should be able to stop this, I'm thinking more like a max amount of CP a body part can suffer before there's damage or at least risk of it.

Basically to minimize it, you would grapple multiple body parts to spread out the CP and load-bearing.

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I have implemented the automatic judo throw gives falling damage in my games, and the subject needs to make his own Breakfall roll to lessen that damage. I ruled it as being a fall equal to half the "current height" (i.e., take into account kneeling, etc.) of the thrower, or half the height of the victim, whichever is greater.
Fall damage is harsh realism I like, though I'd prefer half the height of victim if they're standing, and half height of attacker if they had first performed a "pickup" technique successfully.

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That requires a lot of ballparking the height, but that's fine. For the typical standing humans, I use 1-m (or 1 yard) as the default, even thought it's technically slightly more than half their height.
One thing about falls I'd like to calculate in advance based on someone's HP is the distances required to change between dice amount cutoffs, then you wouldn't need to calculate every time, just look at where it falls between cutoffs.

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I never contemplated a way for the thrower to "hold back" and prevent a full fall, but I think I would make it as a penalty to skill as well. And maybe have a required follow-up action: e.g., your still holding onto your foe to prevent him from hitting the ground, therefore you must kneel down to still be able to reach him, and if you want to let go you need to do it next turn.
Basically you'd be making extra effort to decelerate them on the way down.

The decelerate the entire way might require crouching or long arms if you were grabbing the torso, but if you were grabbing the arm you might be able to do this standing up.

As with "tug of war" that kind of deceleration could injure if done with low skill (or to stop a high amount of force), though a dislocated shoulder is generally preferable to a concussion.
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Old 09-25-2021, 03:18 PM   #9
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Default Re: Technical Grappling - Stuck in the Middle of a Tug-Of-War

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I never contemplated a way for the thrower to "hold back" and prevent a full fall, but I think I would make it as a penalty to skill as well. And maybe have a required follow-up action: e.g., your still holding onto your foe to prevent him from hitting the ground, therefore you must kneel down to still be able to reach him, and if you want to let go you need to do it next turn.
Spend control points to avoid or negate rolled damage.
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Old 09-27-2021, 03:31 PM   #10
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Default Re: Technical Grappling - Stuck in the Middle of a Tug-Of-War

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I'd prefer some kind of "per second" situation.
Allow the victim to make "per second" attempts to break free using standard Technical Grappling rules. If they're too weak or fatigued to escape long-term pulling, they'll eventually suffer additional damage from bruising, shock, torn tissues, etc.

Damage from long-term pulling shouldn't be applied that fast, however. Either the victim is going to be pulled apart fast by the sudden force or else they'll hold together for a considerably longer time as their tissues gradually fail.

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What if we just made a low-damage "wrench limb" some kind of mandatory unavoidable component of all grappling maneuvers: you can try to lessen the damage by taking penalties but otherwise there's an inherent risk of injury to dragging people around.
That would work. Maybe require a skill roll to avoid inflicting thrust-2 cr damage on the grappled parts. Spend a CP to not inflict the rolled damage, per Doug's comment below.

Or spend no CP to just transfer the accidental damage to an adjacent hit location (e.g., head to arm), like your example of dislocating an arm to prevent a head injury.

Maybe give the victim "structural DR" equal to HT/3 or ST/3 to resist this damage. That means that wrestlers who are just grappling each other to gain position or a lock are unlikely to accidentally squeeze each other to death, but a ST 10 human trying to grab a ST 1 mouse, or a ST 30 giant trying to grab a ST 10 human, could do serious accidental damage.
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