Has Gurps ever made you call Shenanigans?

[Figleaf23]

This seems like a good opportunity to flog my personal hobby-horse.

One way to avoid one potential area of cash-grabby annoyance: SJG should make sure when crunchy generic rules are published in a genre or special-interest publication, that those rules are quickly made availble separately thru E23.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

This seems like a good opportunity to flog my personal hobby-horse.

One way to avoid one potential area of cash-grabby annoyance: SJG should make sure when crunchy generic rules are published in a genre or special-interest publication, that those rules are quickly made availble separately thru E23.

They seem to do that to some degree already, taking into account the publishing schedule. It's been said that parts of Gun Fu with realistic application will also be in Tactical Shooting, so you presumably don't lose out if only one of those interests you.

...And the other thing is, how could this be done? Every GURPS 4e product except the Basic Set is a genre or special interest publication. Some very broad (Powers, Perks), but still. Do you want them to start periodically spawning rules compendium PDFs?

Hm. I'd buy those.

[AOTA]

SJG has been pretty good at not making books that only include a couple of pages that you might need for another genre. The closest might have been GURPS Horror or GURPS Horseclans for the first edition of GURPS since for awhile that was one of the few places you could find the PSI rules. Even then it wasn't much of a sacrifice since the books were much cheaper back then. I really can't think of any 4th edition book I've bought that I thought I'll only use these few pages.

[Kromm]

We lack the time and personnel resources to create "cash grabby" materials. Everything we publish for GURPS, we publish because at least three people – the writer, Phil Reed (a book doesn't happen until he has read and approved the outline), and I (a book doesn't happen until I've read and approved the proposal) – think it's fun and would be cool for some gamers, somewhere. We have explicit policies in place to prevent excessive reuse ("Buy these 32 pages and get two whole pages of new stuff!"), too. Whether you are or aren't in the target market is rather immaterial. Indeed, if you aren't, and can't imagine why you would be . . . well, that's basically anecdotal evidence that the supplement is the opposite of "cash grabby."

I can't imagine why DF: Taverns would strike anybody as less-than-vital to DF. Well, unless they've never played any old-school fantasy . . . then, maybe. But if you have even the smallest clue about the 1970s and 1980s fantasy games that inspired DF, then you're probably laughing gleefully and waiting excitedly for Taverns. Remember that I created DF, and that I'm 42 years old and started gaming in the 1970s; people who aren't in their late 30s or older, and who don't remember the 1970s or earlier, might not "get" my creation. That doesn't change the fact that Taverns fits my vision for DF.

As for compendia of crunch, please read above: We have explicit policies in place to prevent excessive reuse. And we don't consider it "cash grabby" to put mechanics where they belong. If you think they belong elsewhere, groovy – buy the supplement and export its rules. That's your call, though, not ours. We are publishing a system, which means that we do assume some basic level of "collector mentality." That's the fundamental business model for RPG systems rather than one-off games, and we're not going to alter it. You can call that "cash grabby" if you like; we won't be offended to hear that we're doing it right.

[Anaraxes]

But... if you don't have taverns... how on earth are you ever going to get the party together? And where do they meet the mysterious old man in the corner to find out about the dungeon? Honestly, I don't see how you managed without DF: Taverns being the first book published, so that you'd even get a chance to use the others. With no taverns, all you can do is start in the gladitorial slave pits or wake up naked already in the dungeon.

(I'd put an OOTS link here, but I don't think On The Origins of PCs got published on the web.)

[blacksmith]

What is cash grabby anyway? SJG has an interest in writting books that will sell many copies. So a desire for sales isn't it. It would seem that for a cash grabby book you would need to make a small portion of that needed to many people. I don't see that as all that doable in GURPS because of the nature of GURPS. You just can't write books that seriously change the gameworld because GURPS has never had an evolving game world to start with.

You could get it by adding in crunch in what are mostly setting books, but they have not done that.

So just because they might publish a few books I don't want to purchase they have many more that I do want to purchase.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

... Do you want them to start periodically spawning rules compendium PDFs?

Hm. I'd buy those.

Yep, pretty much. But an ongoing series of more timely and lower priced PDFs rather than the 3e Compendium model.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I can't imagine why DF: Taverns would strike anybody as less-than-vital to DF. Well, unless they've never played any old-school fantasy . . . then, maybe. But if you have even the smallest clue about the 1970s and 1980s fantasy games that inspired DF, then you're probably laughing gleefully and waiting excitedly for Taverns. Remember that I created DF, and that I'm 42 years old and started gaming in the 1970s; people who aren't in their late 30s or older, and who don't remember the 1970s or earlier, might not "get" my creation. That doesn't change the fact that Taverns fits my vision for DF.

Absolutely! Taverns are to role-play as "Once upon a time" is to fairy tales.

... As for compendia of crunch, ... we don't consider it "cash grabby" to put mechanics where they belong. If you think they belong elsewhere, groovy – buy the supplement and export its rules.

This doesn't sound like you're quite grasping my input -- since buying the supplement is precisely what I'm talking about not doing.

My purchases are made from the perspective of a player, not a collector. Some parts of the line appear to serve different purposes than others and, for me, I need and buy the parts that make the system a system

Being able to get the system-type material without other material that interests me less is a value to me as a customer. Of course it's up to SJG to decide if you can or want to capitalize on that value.

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

This seems like a good opportunity to flog my personal hobby-horse.
One way to avoid one potential area of cash-grabby annoyance: SJG should make sure when crunchy generic rules are published in a genre or special-interest publication, that those rules are quickly made availble separately thru E23.

That sounds like a familiar irritation of mine:
repeatedly discovering that the solution to my problem lies in a book I have not yet bought. I've no interest in either DF or Action but have bought almost all of them because of this very thing.

A "New Rules" page in the forum would be nice. Then, if I wanted to buy a booklet, I could buy it for it's intended purpose and not just to read the whole of a new rule in it's original context. This couldn't apply to the Big Books, just the little pdf's.

If I had the space and money I'd buy the pdf and hardcopy of everything just for the sake of it. Can't say as I'd think the same for other systems.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

But... if you don't have taverns... how on earth are you ever going to get the party together? And where do they meet the mysterious old man in the corner to find out about the dungeon?

And a tavern wench to oggle!

Though in that direction lies danger, because if she's too interesting, the players might skip the dungeon altogether!