DR of shields? Why so much higher than ordinary slab of wood?

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

The part in the movie Troy where Brad Pitt's shield stops a spear: fantasy, or possible?

Possible with a real shield not the latex one that Pitt had ;) (and all of the shields described by Homer are circular). It would take a direct hit at close range to punch through a Homeric shield (FWIW this shield is specifically mentioned in LT)

Homeric shields are also much thicker in the middle and taper out to a thin edge. See Homer's description of Aneias’ shield [20.273-280] for an example. A spear has a better chance of penetrating out near the rim than in the centre. LT doesn't go into this level of detail and so gives all shields a uniform DR.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Langy

I'm pretty sure you don't use the chart in the basic set to determine the weight of a shield because shields aren't just slabs of wood - they're reinforced with metal, which significantly reduces their weight for the same DR.

You're mistaken - HP are not material dependent, beyond the question of Unliving vs Homogenous. That's why that chart doesn't have separate columns for different material types - the differences in materials comes down to DR, various forms of Injury Tolerance and/or versions of Fragile and/or Vulnerable.

Wood has ablative, flammable DR, usually at significantly lower DR levels than most metals for the same thickness.

[Langy]

I thought he was referring to the DR chart, not the HP chart (which I never used, since I have a calculator and can run through the mass-to-HP formula easily). DR very much depends upon weight, and if you'll reread my post that is what I was talking about - that very sentence you quoted says nothing about HP and specifically mentions 'DR'.

[Carlos]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Low Tech gives shields a DR of 4. Light variants have DR 2. Hit Points are calculated based on weight and the Objects Hit Points Table.

Basic Set, p. 287 states that iron shields can be purchased with 5x cost, having weight x2, +3 DR and x2 HP. An Iron Heavy shield could have DR up to 12!

However, on LT Companion II - Weapons and warriors, p. 19 says that Metallic Shields has its usual DR and HP, with 25% less weight.

So does that mean that the thickest and heaviest human shield made entirely of metal has only DR 4 and 27 HP, according to Low-Tech Rules?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Carlos

Basic Set, p. 287 states that iron shields can be purchased with 5x cost, having weight x2, +3 DR and x2 HP. An Iron Heavy shield could have DR up to 12!

However, on LT Companion II - Weapons and warriors, p. 19 says that Metallic Shields has its usual DR and HP, with 25% less weight.

So does that mean that the thickest and heaviest human shield made entirely of metal has only DR 4 and 27 HP, according to Low-Tech Rules?

Of course not.

What it means is that if you made a metal shield to reproduce the functionality of a large roman scutum, it would (maybe, roman shields have the tough modifier built in) have DR 4 and 27 HP, and weigh 16.5 lb.

You could theoretically make a thicker metal shield if you wanted. Low Tech doesn't tell you what stats such a theoretical shield would have.

[Carlos]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Of course not.

What it means is that if you made a metal shield to reproduce the functionality of a large roman scutum, it would (maybe, roman shields have the tough modifier built in) have DR 4 and 27 HP, and weigh 16.5 lb.

You could theoretically make a thicker metal shield if you wanted. Low Tech doesn't tell you what stats such a theoretical shield would have.

Yes, but I'm speaking about a thickest and heaviest shield that is useable for human-like characters (like a half-elf with ST 14).

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Carlos

Yes, but I'm speaking about a thickest and heaviest shield that is useable for human-like characters (like a half-elf with ST 14).

And again, obviously not. Since we know that at the very least a 22 lb large roman scutum can be used by human-like characters. A 22 lb metal scutum would be no less usable, and would be thicker and heavier than a 16.5 lb metal scutum. We just don't have canonical stats for it.

I do wonder about the rule that metal shields have the same DR as wooden ones.

[Joseph Paul]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Fighting with two weapons isn't all that hard. The hard part is controlling them both at the same time with enough awareness of them both to make accurate strikes and remain ready to use them for defence.

It can be trained, sure. But that doesn't give you two independent sources of offence, since while you have two hands, you don't have the ability to focus on many things at once. At most, the weapons can be used to make a joint attack where each hand basically does the same thing, so the attention isn't divided too badly.

Most two weapon styles that I've seen performed are either pre-rehearsed art forms that would have limited battlefield utility or they actually alternate which weapon the user is focusing on. For example, boxing uses both hands to punch, but not at the same time.

It is not that hard to train to split the attention to do two separate things because in actuality you are not doing 'separate' things you are enacting an SOP that you have worked on until it is part of your muscle memory. It is no different in learning to block with the shield and strike with a sword in the same time. It is a very common occurence for people new to such an activity to eventuslly experience their limbs doing things automatically IE with out their concious direction such as making a block or strike. I have been the target of SCA two weapons users and have had to deal with multiple attacks occuring at the same time such as a right hand cut to my left leg and thrust by the left hand to my body. This leaves me (a sword and board guy) Blocking my leg and Parrying the thrust.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I do wonder about the rule that metal shields have the same DR as wooden ones.

They don't. Low-Tech treats wooden shields as a "Light" variant. Regular shields are combinations of wood, leather, and metal.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Carlos

So does that mean that the thickest and heaviest human shield made entirely of metal has only DR 4 and 27 HP, according to Low-Tech Rules?

There are no rules in Low-Tech for making heavier metallic shields but I'm wondering whether you would get realistic results if you apply the rule on p. 287 on top of the metallic shield in Companion II.