When reality and roleplaying get in a fist fight

[nick012000]

Originally Posted by Kizara

Its like sneak attacking someone with a tank. Sure, it requires the tank to already be in position and well hidden, and for the person to happen to be standing in line with its gun, but its doable.

"He must be some sort of tactical genius!"
"CREEEEEEEEEED!"

[Randover]

I tend to be extremly carefull not to put group in between difficult choice, giving them always suitable way of handling things. (My way)

For example I would never place T-rex on scene without cleare definition what would happen to them. Even at the cost of sacraficing some NPC.

I know that some pleople prefer more "hard" option, but I have found that "easy" setting is most propriet for almost every game I run.

So if I plan an ambush on my players I see to it, that eighter there is no chance on defence(taking them prisoners) or that they could actualy turn tide easily.

But than again I don't like different characters with tons of disadvatages that are hard to evaluate during crisis situation.


But anyway. Sometimes whole group or one player want to play, act, something different. Its cool if they realise it before game settion, but sometimes they simply don't know until climax. We aren't telepaths. So perfect gaming is impossible. My best advice it: Get over it and don't be afraid to listen to your players and don't be afraid to tell them what you like and want.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

How in the world do you ambush someone with a ballista? Isn't the whole point of a ballista that the enemy is in a place where he is unambushable?

Not really, it was the romans used at least some in feild battles. As for how you ambush someone with one, well cast invisibility on it. Or use camo netting or what have you, or an illusionary wall.

This of course was after the same theif stole a mans pants with out him noticing.

[Gollum]

This is the kind of thread I prefer: a discussion about what is hidden behind the rules… Every game is a point of view about our world, especially those which say they are realistic. Of course, some games claim to be fully cinematic, but even them are dealing with an idea about the reality: they rule what is possible and what is not.

In my humble opinion, there are two problems here.

1) How to determine what is realistic or not?
2) How to make it have an impact on the game?

1) Since the reality is not always realistic, this is a true problem. Sometimes, totally unskilled people succeed much better than experts. They simply have an outstanding luck. Sometimes, someone do something incredible, something that everyone around believed impossible (surviving a bullet in the head or a 2,000 yards fall…). Of course, it doesn't occur very often. But papers are full of such news: “incredible but true!” Thus, determining what is possible or not is not easy. And agreeing about it is even harder. One player can say: “It is possible! Someone did it!” while the GM – and every other players – simply believe it is silly…

2) Even when everyone around the table do agree about the fact that something is impossible, another question arise: how to translate it into rules? Just with a “No, you can't do it?” It first appears to be the best solution but a player could answer: “Come on! This is just a game… It doesn't have to be so much realistic. In reality, none of us would have agreed to achieve this mission!” And he could be right: in reality, nobody do what roleplaying characters do. – “What? You ask us to go to the Mad Baron's castle to save your daughter? Did you realize that we are only 5?”

So, is there any solution to this problem?

To my mind, yes.

I first tried to forbid actions that I thought impossible. But, as said above, it is not a good solution: some players will argue that it is just my point of view or that they would like to do it because a hero in a movie did it…

So, now, I content myself with applying the rules as they are written. And what did they say about actions? Certain actions are possible and require a success roll (as soon as there is a risk). Others are possible and do not even require a roll (those that are trivial or mundane). But the only thing noted about “impossible actions” is in the Table of Task Difficulty Modifiers: impossible: -10. So, if an action sounds impossible to me – but possible for the player –, I let him roll at -10. I'm happy because this penalty give a huge chance of failure. He is happy because a miracle can still occur, as in the movie or even as in the reality, sometimes. Brief, everybody has fun and the game still keeps his consistence with “reality”.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats

I supose like most people masochistic enough to GM I face quite a few instances where players do things that simply wouldn't work in real life but the only reason I can come up with why they can't do them is "because it's silly". I guess a prime example is from the gamers movie where one of the characters sneak attacks an enemy with a balista, but these aren't all that uncommon. I also observed from TV troupes that these sort of things are pretty common in fiction as well. What are things in roleplaying that are unrealistic to the point of silly and why are thye silly?

One of my points about this regards human behavior.

That is, the difference between 'cinematic' and 'realistic' isn't just about the machines or the magic, but how people behave around them. For ex, my Orichalcum Universe has a 'modern day' setting in it (i.e. roughly 1945-2020), and even though things like psionics and supertech do exist, they aren't out in the open. So people (meaning NPCs) behave the way they would in real life, near enough, and if they do encounter the weird stuff they (the NPCs)react the way I suspect real people would.

What does all this mean? Well, if you're playing in my modern-day setting, a few words of advice, in no particular order:

1. Don't get into a fight with a cop!

Why? Because unless there is some clear, definite reason why not, the result is going to be the same as it would be in real life, i.e. you lose. Either the cop kills you or hauls you off to jail, or you kill/overcome him and now you're a fugitive with all that that implies. It doesn't matter how big a tough guy you are, odds are this is going to be a losing proposition for you fast. Even if the cop is 40 lbs overweight, out of shape and slow, and you're the toughest thing on two legs in the State, it's still STUPID.

The most terrifying magic words to a Modern Day setting PC if I'm GMing may well be "Officer Needs Assistance". That spell can convert one lone cop into a small army dismayingly quickly.

(There are a handful of exceptions, mostly NPCs, who could get away with it, but if a PC wants to try it s/he'd better be ready to face the results or have a Real Good Plan to make sure they don't happen.)

2. Don't try that cool move you saw on the Action Movie Channel.

Again, unless there is a clear reason why not, this will have something like the same result it would in reality. Spin kicks, for example, make for lousy real-world combat moves, and a 90 lbs weakling with a Saturday Night Special trumps a master ninja or an unarmed SEAL most of the time. If you jump on the roof of the moving car, expect to have Bad Things result if you don't get several critical successes in a row. No, Virginia, you can't judo flip a grizzly bear.

3. Never **** with a gun.

Again, this is sort of a subset of the above, or continuation. Barring some particular, specific reason why not, it's real good advice for PCs playing in my modern-day setting (or most of the others).

4. Animals may be cute...but they're still animals.

This one is pretty simple but boils down to "This isn't Disneyworld, the cute bear cubs' mother doesn't have a sense of humor and wild animals can and will hurt you if you do something dumb or are just unlucky."

Again, there can be exceptions...but not casual ones or silly ones. There are telepaths in my world, for ex, who might just be able to calm an angry she-bear down...or maybe not.

(Roll vs. Telepathy skill to reach the bear, then roll again to stun her or calm her or make her sleep or whatever. High negative penalties for species difference, I do hope she isn't already hurt or hungry.)

5. Don't assume that the law really says what they say it says on TV.

Self-explanatory.

6. The bank doesn't care why the payment is late, only that it is late.

Things cost, and being broke is a BIG disadvantage.

Etc. Atlantis was real in my world, and there really are aliens and UFOs and psionics and secret societies...but life still works the way it works.

[BMR]

There's a scene in Gamers 2: Dorkness Rising where the bard sneak attacks a book. The DM tells his enthusiastic player that you cannot sneak attack unliving targets. To which the bard retorts, "it has a spine doesn't it?"

Then he rolls a 1 and his character stabs himself to death. Silly boy meets critical failure.

I roleplay the silly and the impossible, as well as the consequences. To begin with, I look at the character stats. Doesn't have the skill? Default to the nearest equivalent, applying all appropriate modifiers. So when he is doing that ninja kick at -10, he fails. And if he succeeds in kicking the combat droid, its DR absorbs all damage and I roll a Contest versus HT to determine if the player breaks his foot for his trouble.

This is a serious question because it relates to abuse. Back in the dim dark days of 1996, my circle of players got involved into an open-ended Shadowrun campaign. Unfortunately, the GM allowed the players to A) start out with too much wealth, and B) simply order the most overpowered equipment on the net. So that in short order they were cruising around in flying battle tanks while satellite missile platforms obliterated any opposition. The characters themselves were so tricked out with game-breaking bionics and nanotech that they were practically TL14 gods in a TL8 world.

When I brought them over to my GURPS Cyberpunk campaign, they were shocked that I wouldn't let them buy a tank on the Internet from the first missions. Instead, I made them roleplay to get it. Worse, I pitted them against 50-to-75-point NPCs instead of cannon fodder. If players had acquired that tank--lo and behold--the local police would have called in the National Guard. In the long run, I would have made the PCs escape prison, change their identities, or find a way to zero their criminal records simply so they could step outside. Along the way, their characters would have actually grown.

Instead, I joined the Navy and we never finished the campaign, which is its own lesson.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by BMR

If players had acquired that tank--lo and behold--the local police would have called in the National Guard.

This is precisely the sort of thing I was getting at in my post above.

The equivalent in my world would be something like: "Yes, you're a powerful psion with major PK and ESP and yes, you're tough enought to take on and beat two cops at once in a fight after you disarm them with psionics. The question is, are you STUPID enough to actually do that, considering what will inevitably follow?"

If the answer to the question is yes, the player is stupid enough, then don't expect much GM help when instead of two cops you find yourself on the run from hundreds of State and local police, FBI, and who knows who else, equipped with dogs, helicopters, rifles, etc, and your bank accounts are frozen or monitored, your face is plastered in every Post Office in the country, the cops are shooting first because you have a reputation of being armed and dangerous (they know you beat two cops up even if they don't know how, after all).

[Flyndaran]

Only if the cop beaters left physical evidence or victims that could identify him. The real world is full of crimes forever left unsolved. When you get psychic powers involved then...

[Mark Skarr]

To me, it matters most what the feel of the game is supposed to be. If I'm telling a story and deviation won't hurt the story, then I let it go.

We're playing a game and it's supposed to be fun. That said, unless it's that type of game, I strongly discourage stupidity. In an IOU setting, charging the T-Rex with a broadsword may be the best course of action. I do try to warn the players when they're about to do something that is stupid, or violates the feel of the game.

Also, I don't come up with a single way to resolve a situation. My players are quite smart and very capable of coming up with some unusual solutions.

I actively "punish" stupidity. By punish I mean that I make them deal with the consequences . . . sometimes that means death.

While I punish stupidity, I don't punish genius. Sometimes it's hard to see the difference . . . but it's there.

Charging the rancor with an AK-47 to get its attention seemed highly stupid, then running through the forest while it chases you to the grounded alien ship where those two can slug it out . . . was freaking genius. I hadn't thought of it, and it was more interesting than what I'd thought up.

[Sense of Duty (Kittens)]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

One of my points about this regards human behavior.

Spin kicks, for example, make for lousy real-world combat moves,

Why is this? Theorhetically, the rotation gives you more time to acccelerate.