(IW) Cyberpunk Worlds

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by warellis

Actually hmm, for a place like Cyberme, I could see the open and accepted presence of psychic powers & psi-tech be used to sort of throw the public's attention off of something more supernatural.

Because psionics are real and provable. but magic? Pfft, that's just BS peddled by someone making stuff up obviously. ;)

In a sense, the idea here is hiding supernatural stuff like magic under something more accepted and "scientific" as psionics.

Another thing aiding in this, I could see, is if corporations focused more on specific psionic talents specifically while neglecting focus on other possible psionic talents or abilities. Like if corporations looked at psychics mostly from a military perspective, they might focus research and tech on using them as weapons, but neglect other possible talents that could be a thing, like say sensing ghosts or something.

As for GURPS Psi-Tech, what tech from it would fit the more semi-realistic cyberpunk of Cyberme?

A better question is “what wouldn't?” All of the mundane technology and lab equipment works just fine. Psi-interfaces fit, as long as equivalent neural interfaces do. Psi-amps should be fine too, as they're built around boosting the Psi Talents: as such, they make Psi Abilities more reliable, but not necessarily more powerful (extra effort being the exception). Psychotronic Generators depend on which psi ability they generate: flashier abilities are more likely to disrupt the setting.
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Most other augmentation devices ought to work in moderation. A world web is likely to be problematic, if only because it requires the involvement of so many people. I could see Gestalt Webs being a thing, with the result being somewhat similar to that Rooster Teeth series from not long ago. What was it called? Oh yeah; gen:Lock.

Anti-psi technology is never a problem, since the more of it there is, the more hidden psi tends to be.

Astral technology is mostly okay, too; the biggest issue would be the OOBE Machine (out of body excursion). I'd note that in a psiberpunk setting, Astral Entities should definitely be a thing.

Ergokinetic gear tends to be on the flashy side; though the Cyberpsi part of it is essential. Electrokinetic gear probably isn't a great idea; and while I'd really like the idea of photokinetic gear (such as chameleon circuitry or holographic displays), they'd likely change the feel of the setting too much. Though if you have blatant ergokinetic running around, that may not be as big a deal as you might think. And I've already addressed my thoughts concerning psionic computers.

And so on.

As for Psionics concealing magic: I guess. OTOH, Psionics can easily be the source for most supernatural phenomena.

[warellis]

Also, I'm looking at these postcards from France & Germany, about what people in 1900 thought the year 2000 would be like, and now I'm wondering what kind of TL, and what style of "punk" would these Edwardian-ish postcards offer. Or would that just be Eisen?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by warellis

cultural

Also, I'm looking at these postcards from France & Germany, about what people in 1900 thought the year 2000 would be like, and now I'm wondering what kind of TL, ?

The TL is generally 6^. I saw little that ws not actually in TL and some of what wasn;'t real was a definite TL6 concept like beamed power. However, _Everything_ worked well and with magical ease. That's the ^ part.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by warellis

With Cyberme since much of the world is sort of more Japanese-like, culturally I mean, regarding corporations, education, and work schedules, I'm wondering if another aspect of Japan is more widespread as well in that cyberpunk setting: organized crime going into legal business with corporations.

From what I recall about Japan, the yakuza there are sort of entertwined with various companies. Kind of like the Russian Mafiya as well. now that I think on it.

Then again, how often is organized crime given a sort of semi-legal "respectable" image in most cyberpunk settings?I look at this quote and I wonder: Bonaparte-4, Shikaku-Mon, & Cyberme, what flavor of cyberpunk does each offer, from their world descriptions and such, in this thread's opinion?


Also, I'm looking at these postcards from France & Germany, about what people in 1900 thought the year 2000 would be like, and now I'm wondering what kind of TL, and what style of "punk" would these Edwardian-ish postcards offer. Or would that just be Eisen?

The French set has three features, flying machines that seem to have neutral buoyancy, despite only the largest of them having gas bags, underwater breathing apparatus that lasts for many hours before needing to be recharged, and ubiquitous automation of all labour. That last one in particular suggests a tech level of 6+3. The productivity of each individual work is vastly magnified even though their robots are clearly very dumb. Note that none of it is steam powered. It all looks to be electrical or muscle.

As for the German candymakers, I'm inclined to ignore the personal flying machines since it doesn't fit with what otherwise seems to be a steamtech world positively obsessed with balloons and railways. I'd rate it as a 6+1 steampunk setting that totally rejects the personal automobile. But it does have TV and imaging technology that can look right through solid walls. The cloud seeding technology is very effective though and it's steam engines are wildly efficient at moving large things at a leisurely pace.

[warellis]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The TL is generally 6^. I saw little that was not actually in TL and some of what wasn't real was a definite TL6 concept like beamed power. However, _Everything_ worked well and with magical ease. That's the ^ part.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The French set has three features, flying machines that seem to have neutral buoyancy, despite only the largest of them having gas bags, underwater breathing apparatus that lasts for many hours before needing to be recharged, and ubiquitous automation of all labour. That last one in particular suggests a tech level of 6+3. The productivity of each individual work is vastly magnified even though their robots are clearly very dumb. Note that none of it is steam powered. It all looks to be electrical or muscle.

As for the German candymakers, I'm inclined to ignore the personal flying machines since it doesn't fit with what otherwise seems to be a steamtech world positively obsessed with balloons and railways. I'd rate it as a 6+1 steampunk setting that totally rejects the personal automobile. But it does have TV and imaging technology that can look right through solid walls. The cloud seeding technology is very effective though and it's steam engines are wildly efficient at moving large things at a leisurely pace.

Do you think it's technically a dieselpunk setting, due to a starting point of TL 6? Or would you say it's more like an electricpunk or musclepunk(?) setting? Kind of reminds me a bit of Britannica-6 which had dieselpunk tech with steampunk/Victorian aesthetics.

Originally Posted by fchase8

I don't think anyone's mentioned Bonaparte-4, which is described as:

Bonaparte-4 could be used for a more 'normal' cyberpunk IW campaign. It doesn't have the weirdness of Cyberme, or is as divergent as Shikaku-Mon (and not 'at the same time as Homeline'). There's even a militarized United States, anarchic Russia, and aggressive Japan, classic cyberpunk staples.

Do you think Bonaparte-4, Cyberme, & Shikaku-Mon sort of show or represent different flavors of cyberpunk?

Also thinking on it, would Combine (the world of OGRE) be considered a cyberpunk world?

I know Infinity was afraid its AI technology in Infinite Worlds: Lost Worlds would go down the same path as the genocidal AI of Steel, and I guess Combine's local year in Lost Worlds is far before the Last War of the 2060's.

[TGLS]

Originally Posted by warellis

Also thinking on it, would Combine (the world of OGRE) be considered a cyberpunk world?

Depends how Cyberpunk you think the modern Chinese economy is.

[warellis]

Originally Posted by TGLS

Depends how Cyberpunk you think the modern Chinese economy is.

What are governments in OGRE like?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by warellis

Do you think it's technically a dieselpunk setting, due to a starting point of TL 6? Or would you say it's more like an electricpunk or musclepunk(?) setting?

Naw, I just it put it down wrong. While it has the equivalent of television and thermal imaging, it doesn't seem to have either the internal combustion engine or fixed wing heavier than air flight (both the tractors pulling the mobile shop district and the ship being launched with rails are steam). So it would be 5+2. Really though, there ought to be a word for steamtech.

Kind of reminds me a bit of Britannica-6 which had dieselpunk tech with steampunk/Victorian aesthetics.Do you think Bonaparte-4, Cyberme, & Shikaku-Mon sort of show or represent different flavors of cyberpunk?

Bonaparte-4 dispenses with the whole corporatism thing. Instead the Empire's authority is being eroded by organized crime and guerrilla revolutionaries. Cyberme-1 is the off the shelf default tabletop cyberpunk setting. Shikaku-Mon splits the difference by having a corporatist state in Brazil, while the Japanese Empire mixes cybernetics with a shogunate social order.

Also thinking on it, would Combine (the world of OGRE) be considered a cyberpunk world?

Not especially. Clearly hacking is not effective because if it was they wouldn't dare field those Ogre 1 prototypes, the two main governments aren't at all weak, and while presumably the military has good prostheses for people who us a limb trying to enhance the PBIs with cybernetics seems expensive and pointless when they are investing so much into armoured vehicles.

[warellis]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Bonaparte-4 dispenses with the whole corporatism thing. Instead the Empire's authority is being eroded by organized crime and guerrilla revolutionaries. Cyberme-1 is the off the shelf default tabletop cyberpunk setting. Shikaku-Mon splits the difference by having a corporatist state in Brazil, while the Japanese Empire mixes cybernetics with a shogunate social order.

Cyberme's governments, while having a lot of corporate influence, don't really seem weak or like corporate states:

Over the last 100 years on Cyberme, there has been a general trend by governments around the world to favor large corporations. In almost every area, regulations have been scaled back and companies have been given much freer rein to conduct business however they want to do so. What matters is profit, jobs, and the prosperity these things bring.

The nations of Cyberme are not corporate states, however. Governments remain responsible for passing and enforcing laws, protecting borders with military forces, and other geopolitical tasks, but large corporations have enormous influence, and many public services (including police in some cities) have been privatized.

To me, that sounds sort of different from most cyberpunk settings where megacorporations often openly rule as a government while nations like the US have fully broken up with no one essentially governing *insert territory*.

Then again, Cyberworld is a cyberpunk setting where the government is fully strong, from what people here have said, so maybe the idea of strong corporations and weak nation-states being what we normally associate as the main default of cyberpunk is a bit too limiting.

Originally Posted by TGLS

Depends how Cyberpunk you think the modern Chinese economy is.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Not especially. Clearly hacking is not effective because if it was they wouldn't dare field those Ogre 1 prototypes, the two main governments aren't at all weak, and while presumably the military has good prostheses for people who us a limb trying to enhance the PBIs with cybernetics seems expensive and pointless when they are investing so much into armoured vehicles.

What is known about the two main governments in Combine? Reading up on the NAC & PEF, it sounds like both are very corporate dominated to the point a CEO and a politician are one-in-the-same there.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by warellis

Cyberme's governments, while having a lot of corporate influence, don't really seem weak or like corporate states: .

I would actually say the default is that national governments are still very much in place, but work in partnership with major corporations zaibatsu-style. However there are expansive slums that are even larger and less policed than reality. And yeah, Ogre's setting is more corporatist than I remembered. I was thinking it was more Bolo-style.