(IW) Cyberpunk Worlds

[warellis]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I had an unfortunate incident with an online acquantaince who was in the midst of trying to plug reaiistic ballistics (I think) into a cyberpunk setting he was working on. I happened to drop the remark that cyberpunk was an inherently unrealistic genre and he was sure that I was talking about his ballistic near-obsession.

I wasn't of course (I was actually thinking about cyberpunk politics and economics) and you've supplied another example of the way cyberpunk is unrealistic.

What is unrealistic about cyberpunk politics & economics? They don't always have to be "corpos somehow replace states and have more military power"-style cyberpunk.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by warellis

What is unrealistic about cyberpunk politics & economics? They don't always have to be "corpos somehow replace states and have more military power"-style cyberpunk.

Perhaps i haven't seen enough cyberpunk then but what you mention are some of my primary objections.

I was probably thinking of Shadowrun's "Shiawase decision" mostly when i said that.

[warellis]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Perhaps i haven't seen enough cyberpunk then but what you mention are some of my primary objections.

I was probably thinking of Shadowrun's "Shiawase decision" mostly when i said that.

Eh I kind of feel you can easily have cyberpunk if nations are allowing corporations to privatize or own cities inside them.

Kind of like Cyberme for example:

Over the last 100 years on Cyberme, there has been a general trend by governments around the world to favor large corporations. In almost every area, regulations have been scaled back and companies have been given much freer rein to conduct business however they want to do so. What matters is profit, jobs, and the prosperity these things bring.

The nations of Cyberme are not corporate states, however. Governments remain responsible for passing and enforcing laws, protecting borders with military forces, and other geopolitical tasks, but large corporations have enormous influence, and many public services (including police in some cities) have been privatized.

I notice it's more of a thing in Japanese cyberpunk, where often Japan is still around as a nation, but corporations have often completely bought off the government to look the other way as various company towns of a sort (not to the point of paying in scrip but provide almost all the jobs in town) are ruled by them.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by warellis

What is unrealistic about cyberpunk politics & economics? They don't always have to be "corpos somehow replace states and have more military power"-style cyberpunk.

In terms of politics and economics, the real world of 2022 is arguably very close to being Cyberpunk. Just add cybernetics and netrunning, and you're set.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

In terms of politics and economics, the real world is 2022 is arguably very close to being Cyberpunk. Just add cybernetics and netrunning, and you're set.

It might be "arguable" to some extent some where but i know very well that it can not be argued here due to forum rules.

[warellis]

One thing I notice about some Japanese cyberpunk stuff, something that works well with Cyberme I would say, is that sometimes we see shady corporations or criminal elements make deals with supernatural beings like youkai or demons or whatever for more power or to trade for certain things (even as they bribe politicians tons to look the other way [since Japanese cyberpunk often still has the nation-state be strong instead of broken]).

Now while Cyberme doesn't really have a quite big enough supernatural element to do that, unfortunately, I could see games adding a bit of that.

If you're wondering what I'm thinking of, I'm thinking of stuff like Yu Yu Hakusho, which had criminal elements were working with criminal youkai, or the Taimanin series, NSFW visual novels that involve cyberpunk female ninjas fighting corrupt groups that often include supernatural criminals & shady corporations working from a private city off the coast of Japan).

Sort of a urban fantasy cyberpunk in some ways (though I can't remember if the Taimanin series had the magic stuff kind of out in the open at some point).

[dataweaver]

Personally, considering the existence of Netrunning, brain chips, digital uploads, and similar mind-altering technologies in cyberpunk, I would consider Psionics a better fit for an urban fantasy twist in an otherwise vanilla cyberpunk setting. Add in some Psi-Tech, and the distinction between psi and cyberpunk gets very blurry.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

It might be "arguable" to some extent some where but i know very well that it can not be argued here due to forum rules.

My apology is that came across wrong. For the record, I wasn't mentioning it as an attempt to get into real-world politics, or to start any arguments; I was only mentioning it to point out that “cyberpunk is a future setting" is no longer the only option. Modern-day cyberpunk settings really aren't all that outlandish anymore; you just have to ratchet up the technology a bit. And “a bit” is becoming increasingly minute. For example, so much of the economy has moved online that the sorts of economic issues that cyberpunk excels in dealing with are possible with current technology; stuff like netrunning is merely a fun gloss to put on top of it.

Heck, we're getting to the point where you could do a technological equivalent of urban fantasy, where the netrunning is already there somewhere in the Deep Web while corporations are secretly upgrading their agents with cybernetics and/or bio-tech, but the world outside your window still looks like the real world.

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

And “a bit” is becoming increasingly minute. For example, so much of the economy has moved online that the sorts of economic issues that cyberpunk excels in dealing with are possible with current technology; stuff like netrunning is merely a fun gloss to put on top of it.

I mean, if you make a much more processor and energy friendly crypto-currency algorithm than the best Proof-of-Stake models we have today, widespread adoption of credit chips that don't require bank accounts suddenly become a reasonable consideration.

There are a lot of small nudges like that, but many of them are fairly small nudges.

[warellis]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

Personally, considering the existence of Netrunning, brain chips, digital uploads, and similar mind-altering technologies in cyberpunk, I would consider Psionics a better fit for an urban fantasy twist in an otherwise vanilla cyberpunk setting. Add in some Psi-Tech, and the distinction between psi and cyberpunk gets very blurry.

Like what Cyberme does? Or Academy City in the Toaru light novels does with its espers?

Psychotronics
Scientists on Cyberme have tried to develop technologies to block or augment psychic abilities. Unlike the breeding programs, these have produced some notable successes, such as static helmets that can block many psionic attacks and power helmets that can improve control of certain existing psionic abilities. The first can be modeled as a form of Psi Static (p. B78), with appropriate gadget limitations; the latter can be modeled as one or more levels of one or more psionic Talents (Psionic Powers, p. 5), with appropriate gadget limitations.

You know, one interesting thing I've noticed is that Japanese cyberpunk often still has the nation-state being strong and still around (albeit heavily beholden to corporate interests), whereas a lot of Western(?) cyberpunk often has it being weaker or much more broken. I wonder why that is.