Animal ST Score Reality Checking

[JCurwen3]

To what extent have the ST scores given for animals (pp. B455-460) been reality checked? Are they generally realistic, reliable numbers?

I ask because for every animal entry, the ST score is calculated directly as 2 * cube_root(mass_in_lbs). Is that formula really so universal that it works across all animals?

I've started to attempt some reality checking, but the problem is the entries are generic and also supposed to be for the average member of the species. So, trying to find out the real life load-bearing capability of an elephant... well, there's multiple species of elephant, and information seems geared towards their higher ends, if not their record holders (at least as far as I could find).

I'm wondering if this has come up before, and if anyone has taken a stab at cross-referencing the GURPS entries' ST scores with real life strength measurements (obviously more difficult with some animals than others).

[JCurwen3]

For instance, a gorilla only having ST 15 just can't be right. I've read that they had the strength of at least 6 men (8-15 men for the silverback gorilla).

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

For instance, a gorilla only having ST 15 just can't be right. I've read that they had the strength of at least 6 men (8-15 men for the silverback gorilla).

The whole "strength of x men" isn't an especially scientific statement. However, in GURPS average Gorillas have ST 15 and +3 Arm ST giving a Basic Lift of 65 lbs. This is 3.25x the strength of an average man.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

I'm wondering if this has come up before, and if anyone has taken a stab at cross-referencing the GURPS entries' ST scores with real life strength measurements (obviously more difficult with some animals than others).

It's come up many times, Basic is extremely simplistic, for more realistic scores you need to add things like Arm ST, Biting ST, etc.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

It's come up many times, Basic is extremely simplistic, for more realistic scores you need to add things like Arm ST, Biting ST, etc.

The fact that great apes use their strength in twisting and grabbing, forces bones are weakest against.
The fact that generally muscle is muscle. It's more about how you use it and how much or little mechanical advantage a particular animal's articulation gives.

[gilbertocarlos]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

The whole "strength of x men" isn't an especially scientific statement. However, in GURPS average Gorillas have ST 15 and +3 Arm ST giving a Basic Lift of 65 lbs. This is 3.25x the strength of an average man.

Arm ST doesn't increase basic lifting.

[JCurwen3]

To be honest, I'm less concerned with the gorilla than I am with animals that are or can be used for carrying loads (horses, oxen, elephants, etc). How close do the ST estimates come for producing BLs and max loads (Heavy Enc) for those types of animals?

[DemiBenson]

(Short because I'm typing from work)

Studies of modern horses have found that they are significantly more muscular in proportion than the baseline for (nearly all other) mammals. Primitive genetic engineering at its finest. IIRC, they are about 20% stronger than their size would indicate, so (correct me if I'm wrong) that comes to about +10% ST. i.e. whatever their ST score is, add 10% of that as free Lifting ST.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by DemiBenson

(Short because I'm typing from work)

Studies of modern horses have found that they are significantly more muscular in proportion than the baseline for (nearly all other) mammals. Primitive genetic engineering at its finest. IIRC, they are about 20% stronger than their size would indicate, so (correct me if I'm wrong) that comes to about +10% ST. i.e. whatever their ST score is, add 10% of that as free Lifting ST.

Horses as we picture them look quite different from the original barely rideable equines we started with. It would be like comparing modern dog breeds to their wolf ancestor.