Driving Default: Yesterday I reality-checked it . . .

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

Yesterday was the second time in my life* when I tried driving a real vehicle. An experienced driver was sitting by my side, but did not interfere, except for giving advice. For the sake of statistics, I consider myself as having a DX of 8 or 9 (I'm clumsy), and an IQ of 10 to 11 (while socially awkward, I was doing pretty good in school and university once I got the hang of actually reading through materials and focusing on the lectures). So here are my conclusions about driving on a default:

The DX-based part of the default is pretty straightforward. Gauging the pressure on the gas pedal to a tolerable precision is no big deal, even though gauging it perfectly is very, very hard without training. Figuring the sensitivity of the wheel took some minutes, though I couldn't figure out if the angle of turn is indeed 1° for 1°. Also, positive/routine TDMs stack pretty fast: things I couldn't do with the mouse and arrow keys in a computer game (i.e. with other virtual cars on the road) were easy to do with real controls on an empty road.

The IQ-based part of the skill, however, should have no default. There's just no way I would figure out that I need to hold the clutch pedal when breaking, or changing speeds. I was also pretty shocked when releasing the clutch pedal resulted in the car moving while I didn't touch the gas pedal. Counter-intuitive doesn't begin to describe it.

Finally, some aspects of driving not only shouldn't have a default, but should also be decoupled from the skill entirely. I'm talking about Rules Lore. Having tried to pass a rules lore test, I can say that knowing the rules relates to being able to drive (DX-wise) about as much as knowing a language relates to being able to use calligraphy (again, DX-wise). I.e. not linked at all: one is the skill of how to make movements, while the other is a purely theoretical knowledge of what movements are allowed under what circumstances.

* == first being some time between 3 and 9 years old, and was only allowed to control the pedals (no steering)

Awaiting comments
Thanks in advance.

[smurf]

You are not a qualified driver?

IIRC driving is the ultimate multitask.

In the UK we are taught Mirror Signal Maneauvre (MSM).

So apart from knowing the road, slow down around parked cars, preempt people crossing, slow down near lights. Know your route etc.

We have to

1. get in car prior to you should have unconsciously visually inspected the exterior
2. Make sure mirrors and and seating is all ok
3. check gears, put on belt, start vehicle
4. ensure all the correct lights go out on dashboard, switch on lights if necessary, the MSM, go to 1st - balance and go
5. we are off, check mirrors, go to 2nd
6. check mirrors go to 3rd
5. remember slowing down near corners means brake, clutch change down - oh check mirrors
6. Assess every street on for potential hazards
7. acceralate up to speed limited with road conditions permitting and check mirrors
8. Be aware other road users may not be as courteous as you are
9. Remember to use all your gears depending on your speed, alway indicate to show your intentions remember MSM
10. don't get angry, ok you can be annoyed but not angry at other road users.
11.Concentrate on your task - driving, looking around for hazards and ensuring your safety, and the safety of others.
12. Don't think you can cheat the rules, you can, but one day it will all go wrong. The rules are there for a reason (my hands still sit at the 10 to 2 position and I still use the push pull method for turning).

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by smurf

You are not a qualified driver?

No. I see cars as mostly a luxury thing. Subway is cheaper, doesn't require one to work as one's own driver, and generally as fast for regular trips (which is 99% of the trips I take).

[gmillerd]

Just curious what were you driving? How tall are you? How much speed did you get up to and with other vehicles.

My questions basically surround some issues like people that drive a car for the first time often center themselves (their shoulders / the wheel) in the middle of the lane (look out parked car mirrors!), and they have horrible times dealing with spacial issues related to being high above in a mini van or pickup truck as well as being slung low in a sports car (even a geo storm has the posture change enough to make it different).

Some people have horrid (look behind you or to the side while not moving the wheel) skills, much less the open glove box and find gun skill we all use ever day.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

As a professional driver, I may be somewhat biased but am pretty firmly of the belief that the vast majority of people use Driving at default. Modern roadways are designed to provide a large TDM, but if you throw most people any kind of curveball, especially in wet conditions that impose a penalty, things get really ugly really fast. We had beautiful weather tonight, on a non-holiday Monday, and I witnessed two good crashes and a number of near-misses, one of which involved a successful vehicular Dodge on my part that all of my passengers didn't know was happening until it was over and insisted they would've failed.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

As a professional driver, I may be somewhat biased but am pretty firmly of the belief that the vast majority of people use Driving at default. Modern roadways are designed to provide a large TDM, but if you throw most people any kind of curveball, especially in wet conditions that impose a penalty, things get really ugly really fast.

The accident statistics around here seem to support this. When we have six or less accidents worth reporting during the morning commute on the radio on a dry, reasonably-sunny-but-not-glary perfect day for driving, and spike to 50+ and some days HUNDREDS when it rains or snows? (There have been days when there's so many uncleared accidents at once that the traffic report refuses to list them, and just sums it up with "Expect delays everywhere, drive SLOWLY PLEASE")

Drivers habitually speed 30 km/hr over the limit in good conditions and yet average speed drops to half the usual traveling speed when it drizzles. I can only regard this as people struggling to get a positive TDM to offset the rain penalties by taking extra time :D

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

As a professional driver, I may be somewhat biased but am pretty firmly of the belief that the vast majority of people use Driving at default. Modern roadways are designed to provide a large TDM, but if you throw most people any kind of curveball, especially in wet conditions that impose a penalty, things get really ugly really fast. We had beautiful weather tonight, on a non-holiday Monday, and I witnessed two good crashes and a number of near-misses, one of which involved a successful vehicular Dodge on my part that all of my passengers didn't know was happening until it was over and insisted they would've failed.

The problem with this is that if you say that most drivers are using Driving at default, how to you differentiate between Moloch, who is performing the functions of the skill, but very badly, and a normal driver, who is doing them without much of a thought and manages to avoid any incidents in the overwhelming majorities of his trips out the door?

I think that there is little logical reason to say that someone who practises a skill every day for years will have the skill, unless that skill is Driving. Normal drivers have Driving, even if they only have it at DX-1 or DX. Professional drivers have DX+2 or higher.

This means that the people with skill 2-3 levels less in the skill look really incompetent to them, but to the normal driver, the student driver who is still learning looks equally or even more incompetent (DX-5 at default, up to DX-2 with Dabbler).

[zorg]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

As a professional driver, I may be somewhat biased but am pretty firmly of the belief that the vast majority of people use Driving at default. Modern roadways are designed to provide a large TDM, but if you throw most people any kind of curveball, especially in wet conditions that impose a penalty, things get really ugly really fast.

I agree. Last week, I was on holiday in Wales, which goes pretty far in removing that TDM: driving on the wrong side, absurdly narrow and winding streets, and unexpected situations (roundabout + trafic lights, I'm looking at you). I got through with a few minor failed driving rolls (no critfails), and I compensated with renting the smallest car we could find, but it was still a reminder how much of driving is just routine, as opposed to raw skill.

Originally Posted by Icelander

With everything else, if you spend time using the skill, you improve in it slowly-but-surely until you can reliably succeed at everything you encounter in your use of the skill (at which point you need greater challenges to improve your skill). Why not with Driving?

99% of all driving features routine, boring situations which challenge you not at all. That isn't enough stimulus to improve. In the same way, jogging each day for 2 minutes won't improve your Running skill; just as I assume plinking at trashcans over a few yards with a gun won't do anything for your Guns skill.

[Kyle Aaron]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

As a professional driver, I may be somewhat biased but am pretty firmly of the belief that the vast majority of people use Driving at default.

As a non-professional driver who classes himself as having only default skill, I agree, with the two additions that,

1. acquiring even a default level in a skill takes some kind of experience
2. quite often use of certain skills known at default level don't require a roll.

The second is quite important. Housekeeping at default is enough for keeping the house hygienic, just not pretty and shiny; it's enough for ensuring there's something to eat in the house, but it won't be six months' supply of food. Guns at default is enough to know not to look down the barrel to see if it's loaded. Lifting at default is enough to know not to bend your back to do it. Etc.

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

There are probably more people nowadays who drive cars with automatic transmissions than those who drive manuals.

In my state, if you get your license driving an automatic for the test, you have that marked on the license and are not permitted to drive a manual. If you got it with a manual you can drive either.

Originally Posted by Gollum

In France, the driving license requires between 20 to 30 hours of training, with a teacher. But 20 to 30 hours doesn't correspond to 1 character point; 200 hours are required for that!

In my state, there was for some time no requirement; in recent years they changed it to 120 logged hours - you have to present a logbook, signed by whoever was instructing you for each of those hours. Of course this is usually forged...

Originally Posted by Refplace

To me it seems that driving does indeed improve your skill.

It's said that,

"...the feeling of being confident in more and more challenging situations is experienced as evidence of driving ability, and that 'proven' ability reinforces the feelings of confidence. Confidence feeds itself and grows unchecked until something happens – a near-miss or an accident."

which is to say, just because we've not had an incident recently and feel we're good drivers, does not mean we are actually highly-skilled. This of course applies to many skills, as people will have seen on any occasion on which they sat down with friends and tried to make themselves as characters ;)

Originally Posted by Bruno

The average driver on the road is, in fact, an untrained idiot who more or less fumbled his way through the testing process ;

The practical took me 3 attempts before I was successful, and then only just :D

[hal]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

As a professional driver, I may be somewhat biased but am pretty firmly of the belief that the vast majority of people use Driving at default. Modern roadways are designed to provide a large TDM, but if you throw most people any kind of curveball, especially in wet conditions that impose a penalty, things get really ugly really fast. We had beautiful weather tonight, on a non-holiday Monday, and I witnessed two good crashes and a number of near-misses, one of which involved a successful vehicular Dodge on my part that all of my passengers didn't know was happening until it was over and insisted they would've failed.

Just out of curiosity - where did you witness these near accidents? I've noted that Drivers from Western New York tend to drive in "miserable" conditions that throw people from Virginia for a loop - all without thinking anything of the weather conditions in Virginia. How do I know this? We drove (my wife and I) from Buffalo New York to Charlotte North Carolina over the weekend to watch a Trent Thomlinson concert (long story short, Wife has been waiting for him to Release a new CD for over 3 years and he had finally announced that he was releasing a CD at that venue). Road conditions when we left were not nice, but not horrendous either. We drove all the way down to mid-western Pennsylvania in the middle of a snow storm. Left PA in weather we thought was normal for Buffalo, and had people think we were nuts. Then, when we finally arrived in North Carolina outside of Charlotte, we missed being squeezed/crunched by two trucks because one truck made a lane change without looking. Judicious use of the accelerator and cursing like our lives depended on it, we barely managed to avoid an accident.

So - was that near-miss a problem of "default" driving, or was it a matter of "inattention" to the road? Could it even have been something as simple as a failed perception check where the normal proceedure is to check mirrors and over your shoulder at the blind spot to avoid hitting someone by accident? One need only view videos of drivers in non-snow states dealing with icy roads for the first time, or of Drivers from snow states managing to avoid accidents that subsequent vehicles mess up and enter into a slide and crash.

In the end? I don't think that we're dealing with people driving at defaults. I HONESTLY don't. I do believe however, that if you have even one individual who is not paying attention to what they are doing - such as multi-tasking by means of applying makeup in the mirror whilest driving 55 mph down a freeway, is an example not of "default skill" driving, but of idiocy.

As for poor driving conditions, or dealing with unexpected circumstances? Some people do the wrong things out of sheer ignorance. Some people can drive their entire lives in California, never deal with icy roads, and make the mistake of doing the worst thing possible out of sheer panic when faced with such circumstances for the first time. That isn't a function of "default skill driving" so much as a not having learned the technique of driving under certain circumstances. I've hydroplaned before under semi-controlled circumstances. I've done a bootlegger reverse just ONCE to see if I could do it, and I could, but I wouldn't want to bet my life on being able to do it over and over again without fail and without accident (it should be noted I was driving a standard transmission and not an automatic when I pulled it - and I was moving in reverse first on snow, which made it easier to pull off). I've dealt with the "Dear God" moments when trying to stop on an off ramp that exceeds a drop of 30 feet over a span of about 200 feet in winter). I've also had a head on collision (thank god she was trying to stop even as I was trying to stop or I probably wouldn't be alive to write this). Turns out, the girl was parked facing north on a southbound lane, pulled to the curb to have a vehement argument with her boyfriend (at night while she was in a dark colored vehicle). Peeling rubber, she turned around, veered into the northbound lanes (it was a four lane highway with a center meridian) facing southbound, and intended to get back into southbound lane. Some accidents are just plain STUPID with people making bad decisions that they normally would not make otherwise.

So - Default skill, I don't think is remotely possible. There are too many "rules" of the road that people don't know unless they're exposed to it. There are too many instances where driving "safely" requires a sort of tactical aspect that back in the 1970's, used to be called "Defensive driving". Problem is? GURPS lumps all of those aspects into one skill and calls it a night. A person could have 90% of the correct knowledge to know what to do, but not have the experience where the correct action becomes instinctive. Last but not least, some drivers are essentially loaded guns waiting to go off simply because their "instinctive actions" are the WRONG instinctive actions to take.

So, that's my take on it. One can attempt to move a vehicle through default - but in a way, that default skill is really a matter of watching someone else drive in real life, or it is a function of exposure via movies. Take a kid from a third world nation who has never seen a car or knows how it works or is driven, and they will NOT be able to drive the vehicle by default, let alone drive on the roads with any reasonable safety.

So, just out of curiosity, what precisely are those things that go into the "driving skill" (ie are components of the skill driving)? Tactics of mistake (defensive driving)? Rules of the road (or how not to go against the stream of other drivers who depend on you to narrow down the variables so as to avoid accidents)? Special manuvers (such as how to get out of a spin on a slippery road)? Just as GURPS might go into Parries and call it a category of action, you don't see GURPS treating parries as a special subset of the weapon skill or permit the parry to be treated as a manuever of the skill in question right? Likewise, Driving is a composite of many subskills not worthy of a full Character point or a manuever subset.