Magic variant - powered by life force and some other points

[Anders]

So for a DARK SUN inspired setting I've decided to have magic powered by 'life force', more specifically Hit Points. I also want curses rather than fireballs, just to make magic seem more... sinister, I guess? So a few points

1) Energy cost is paid in Hit Points

2) There are no Missile spells

3) Regular spells use the SSR table for penalty rather than -1/yard

4) Mages cannot learn the Elemental colleges (including Light/Darkness) - that is reserved for Clerics.

Does this sound vaguely balanced with normal magic? I don't want magic to be crippled, and I don't want it taking over the campaign.

What about Energy Reserve (Magical)? Should I change the cost to 2/level reflect that this Energy Reserve replaces Hit Points? Other thoughts?

[Lancewholelot]

Originally Posted by Anders

3) Regular spells use the SSR table for penalty rather than -1/yard

To promote magical staves and wands you could limit this increased range to those utilizing them. Gives mages a good reason to want to use them.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Lancewholelot

To promote magical staves and wands you could limit this increased range to those utilizing them. Gives mages a good reason to want to use them.

Alternatively, as the former erases -1 in Range penalties and the latter erases -2, you could still maintain that. So a wand lets you cast on anyone within 3 yards at no penalty and -1 per SSR step beyond that, while a staff lets you do the same within 5 yards. That gives good reason to use them - against foes that are further than 2 yards away, you functionally get a +1 for using a wand and +2 (if further than 3 yards away) for using a staff.

As for the system itself, I'd say you'll want to get rid of the skill penalty for using HP to power spells, or at least allow High Pain Threshold to reduce/negate it (although note the latter may make HPT pretty much a prerequisite for using magic). I'd be disinclined to have a typical Energy Reserve as an option - that largely negates the drawbacks of having to use HP, and so probably makes this system too good - but I could see cause to have a special Energy Reserve that you can fill by stealing life force from others (Special Recharge, possibly with it slowly draining away over time), which would help emphasize the "dark" nature of magic in such a setting. As for filling the ER, the Leech Advantage or any comparable spell would work (you basically heal yourself to full, then put the excess in the reserve), or I could see a Perk-level Leech that basically only works on bound and helpless targets and requires a decent amount of time to actually work.

[Anders]

Yeah, skipping the penalty for being paid in Hit Points is probably a necessity for this to work.

Hmm... of course, you regain Hit Points a lot slower than you regain FP. If Energy Reserve recovers at FP rate, that's probably worth the extra point per level. Alternatively, you could have a system where only the first point is paid in Hit Points.

You can sacrifice animals (and people!) for energy for a spell, getting HP * IQ energy. The energy must be used immediately, it cannot be 'held'. A sacrifice requires a roll against... a technique based on Thaumatology? Ritual Magic? Of course, if you run around killing farm animals people will be angry at you. Sacrifice taints the flesh so it's unusable as food.

Hmm... Magery 0 costs 10 points but includes Leech (Immediate Preparation, 1 hour, -75%; Magic, -10%). So you can heal yourself by draining the life energy of other creatures, but it takes a *long* time.

[Culture20]

What if the HP cost doesn't have to be supplied by the caster? Powerstones work as a FP replacement in normal casting... perhaps with this HP cost method, a special staff, rod, or dagger needs to have recently or concurrently caused HP damage to a living thing. That could be boon or bane depending on how much the thing damaged is valued, but either way the cost is paid.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Anders

You can sacrifice animals (and people!) for energy for a spell, getting HP * IQ energy..

So powerful Mages need to be evil? If they're all going to eb NPC villains you don't need elaborate rules like this.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

So powerful Mages need to be evil? If they're all going to eb NPC villains you don't need elaborate rules like this.

Well, OP does note a desire to make magic more "sinister" by focusing on curses and the like. But there are ways around being evil - exclusively using people who are legally condemned to die and/or volunteers are suffering from something that will kill them shortly anyway (heck, you might even opt to only use the condemned that volunteer to be sacrificed rather than undergoing a more mundane execution) obviously isn't as evil as sacrificing abducted virgins or whatever (it's probably a bit morally gray, but sometimes that's the best you can get). Of course, this will give evil mages a leg up, as they have no such scruples against using innocent sacrifices, but that seems like an in-genre result.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

So powerful Mages need to be evil? If they're all going to eb NPC villains you don't need elaborate rules like this.

You can get quite a lot of energy from a bull or a horse. You don't need to sacrifice people.And sacrificing animals isn't evil, under most moral systems.

Edit: But the arguments have swayed me. Maybe this is a bad idea. Maybe only the first energy point needs to be HP (that's -30% according to Thaumatology). Maybe it's not needed at all. I'm removing the Missile spells, so wizards will need some other way to affect people at bowshot distance.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by Anders

So for a DARK SUN inspired setting I've decided to have magic powered by 'life force', more specifically Hit Points. I also want curses rather than fireballs, just to make magic seem more... sinister, I guess? So a few points

1) Energy cost is paid in Hit Points

2) There are no Missile spells

3) Regular spells use the SSR table for penalty rather than -1/yard

4) Mages cannot learn the Elemental colleges (including Light/Darkness) - that is reserved for Clerics.

Does this sound vaguely balanced with normal magic? I don't want magic to be crippled, and I don't want it taking over the campaign.

What about Energy Reserve (Magical)? Should I change the cost to 2/level reflect that this Energy Reserve replaces Hit Points? Other thoughts?

I think it's very workable. I might consider reducing the listed FP costs since they're being paid in HP. Maybe on the maintenance side an HP is good for 5 times what an FP would have done.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Anders

1) Energy cost is paid in Hit Points

2) There are no Missile spells

3) Regular spells use the SSR table for penalty rather than -1/yard

4) Mages cannot learn the Elemental colleges (including Light/Darkness) - that is reserved for Clerics.

Does this sound vaguely balanced with normal magic? I don't want magic to be crippled, and I don't want it taking over the campaign.

What about Energy Reserve (Magical)? Should I change the cost to 2/level reflect that this Energy Reserve replaces Hit Points? Other thoughts?

"Vaguely balanced with normal magic?". I see few if any plusses compared with regular magic. It doesn't compete well at all with the default system. Lowering cost for Energy Reserve is the one thing that looks like a lifeline to be siezed (except for the point break at 15 and 20). Though if the Energy Reserve heals daily like HP instead of every 10 minutes like other ERs even that is weakening Mages.

HP are what keeps your character from dying. There is vary vary little that would justify spending them. In a system where you can't even light candles or even replace them with magical balls of light you've lost multiple "entry drugs" to Magic. Without an ER even Healing would be close to counterproductive.

So, yu tell us 9or at least your palyers) Why would anyone become a Mage? What is Maghic goignto do that's so important that a Mage will wilingly risk Death every time he casts a spell? After all, in Dark Sun even Preserver wizards didn't normally use _their_ life force..