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Old 04-07-2021, 08:28 AM   #11
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Re: Exotic weapons requiring Thrown Weapons skill

Maybe this will help: I do think there is a difference in throwing a bola at an armed person and an animal. Bolas by their nature are very easy to partially block it have something in your hand. BTW, I agree with your limit on 3 hex size and larger. I do the same. So, how is this as limits on the bola:

- must spend a turn to ready
- only effective vs 2 hex sized monsters and smaller
- fully effective against anyone that is unarmed (animals and persons)
- fully effective against anyone from rear or flank
- 3/DX save by anyone armed and facing the bola thrower

So the save only applies in very limited set
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Old 04-07-2021, 08:53 AM   #12
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Exotic weapons requiring Thrown Weapons skill

Oh, that's complicated but good. I like that, Axly.

Still can't implement it at present, because there's one bola-using PC. I'll stick with the first two items for now.
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Old 04-07-2021, 12:49 PM   #13
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Re: Exotic weapons requiring Thrown Weapons skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Oh, that's complicated but good. I like that, Axly.

Still can't implement it at present, because there's one bola-using PC. I'll stick with the first two items for now.

Makes sense to stay the course for now. Glad you like it. It's not complicated really. Just one caveat to check for and may need a save.

BTW, I think the net should not have this save. It is larger and harder to block. Instead it should have a maximum range because it is so clunky. I have nothing specific.
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Old 04-07-2021, 01:45 PM   #14
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Exotic weapons requiring Thrown Weapons skill

Yes, I thought about the net and I agree. It comes from the gladiator matches, after all.

You say one caveat, but armed fights are most common in my game so far.
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Old 04-07-2021, 07:10 PM   #15
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Exotic weapons requiring Thrown Weapons skill

Sorry, posted this in the wrong thread.

Think the adherers can scurry up walls and perhaps even on ceilings with their sticky glue? Seems plausible to me.

Last edited by phiwum; 04-08-2021 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 04-08-2021, 08:10 AM   #16
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Exotic weapons requiring Thrown Weapons skill

The description says it doesn't stick to stone, but anything that sticks to other things effectively will be at least a little sticky to stone - maybe enough to let you run around walls like the girl from The Ring, but not enough to just hang out on the ceiling? Unless there is something to stick to, like a wooden beam or chandelier?
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Old 04-08-2021, 08:22 AM   #17
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Exotic weapons requiring Thrown Weapons skill

Thanks, Lars. I overlooked that exception for stone. Hmm... I need to think a bit more. I'm sticking some adherers on the other side of a trap, but they need a way out in order to eat and I was going to have them climb over the trap.

Wait, why did I post this here? This was supposed to be in the Old School Monsters thread obviously. Gah. My mistake. Again.
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Old 06-13-2021, 07:32 AM   #18
JustAnotherJarhead
 
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Cali
Default Re: Exotic weapons requiring Thrown Weapons skill

whatever Nerfs you do in your game, be very cautious with changes, I can tell you flat out that gross changes to rules flat out suck in game play, expecting players to read up on your book of house rules is a bummer to a 30 year player.

also, a bowman or crossbowman can have 40 quarrels that equates to a medieval repeating rifle, whereas a thrown weapons user has high penalties for range, and very limited capacity for ready weapons, I mean who walks around with a bola in their hand all day?
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Old 06-13-2021, 07:38 AM   #19
JustAnotherJarhead
 
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Location: Cali
Default Re: Exotic weapons requiring Thrown Weapons skill

also , I personally throw a lariat, and can throw a bola fairly well, I promise you aren't "dodging" them routinely, more like a 4d6 roll than a 3d6.

same could be said of the whip.

If you have ever done cowboy-jousting, you would see what I mean about not so easily dodging a lariat thrown hard and fast by a skilled user.
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Old 06-13-2021, 04:44 PM   #20
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Exotic weapons requiring Thrown Weapons skill

There is no more prep time to a bola than to reloading and shooting a crossbow.

A spear-thrower can easily get off a couple of throws in one turn if not disturbed.

So I am not on board with the prep time. I also don't like turns where you do nothing, it is boring for the player.

The Bola and the rest are OP though, that is for sure.

Why? You give away one turn when you draw it and throw it, and you have about a 2/3 chance of knocking someone out for 2,5 attacks. The half attack being if you are faster than they or not, since the first turn is wasted completely for being knocked down, second turn they take off the Bola and third turn they stand up. Not only are you stealing 2,5 attacks for your one, they will also give everyone a +4 to hit, since they are prone. This is usually a death sentence in TFT.

My house rule for Bolas, is that you do get a save 3vs. DX or 4 vs. ST to get out of the entaglement and can stand up during the second turn. This means you loose 1,5 turns, still falls down, and still can miss your roll and lose 2,5.
Most likely you need more modifications to make them balanced.

Another rule you could use is that you don't fall prone when hit with a Bola unless you were moving at least half 3MA last movement phase. A standing fighter holding his ground will have his foot work impeded, but will not fall just because someone hit him with a bola. But his MA would be 0 or 1 until he unties it or cuts it. If you remove the auto fall down, that also means a person don't have to waste another turn to stand up, once the bola is removed, and he doesn't have everyone hit him with a +4DX.

I could also see that you have to aim for the legs, arms, wings or head, and that body is not an option. This would mean that bola becomes a niche weapon for the experts or something you use when getting a rear bonus.

Many possibilities for a house rule or two here.

Lassos are even worse, despite the cowboy jousting clip (I liked it), since it is almost impossible to lasso someone and trip them if they are standing still and they see it coming. Here I am more inclined to go with Henry's idea.

When it comes to whips, I don't think it is even possible to get a hold on someone's legs that stands still with his feet in a normal fighting stance. A whip is not long enough to wrap several loops around you in that way, which is needed if it is to self-lock.

Nets are a different matter, they were actually made to entangle an armed opponent, but not to drop them to the ground. They were made to hamper your opponent so they couldn't use shield and sword properly and if the net had a rope attached, maybe the retiarii could pull and try to get their opponent a little out of balance. But the net should probably work like a rope spell. A spell that doesn't trip your opponent even though it certainly is better suited for that purpose if the rope hits the legs.

More entanglements and loss of attacks, maybe giving out a side flanking bonus because you can't block, or robbing you of your engagement zone, as if you were unarmed so a retiarii can back up and charge you again. But this automatic falling down is just bonkers.

So for short:
Decrease the turns someone is taken out of the fight. By letting people remove them and stand up in the same turn with a DX or ST roll.
Make it harder to hit with them, like Henry's suggestion or you have to aim for the legs at -4DX.
Don't have every entangled person fall down unless they were running just before they were hit.

Or just say that all of the weapons provide a ranged Shield Rush, and make Shield rushes a little bit more competitive. Maybe just add a forced retreat even if the shield rush failed to knock them down.

And where is the man catcher pole arm?
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