Talent/Spell of the Week: Woodsman

[Axly Suregrip]

Here is an aspect of Woodsman and the suggested travel speeds I feel is off.

ITL 41 under Woodsman, "party in the wilderness travels at half normal speed unless half (or more) of the characters are Woodsmen."

I take "Wilderness" to be anywhere outside that is not farm land or using roads/trails.

ITL 54 under Travel Speeds, "Use the following rates of speed for 5
mile/hex maps" and paraphrasing:
- 2 hex/day through open country
- 1 hex/day through heavy woods
- 2 days/hex through swamp or mountains

That means with at least half the party of woodsmen, traveling through open country only travels 10 miles in a day. Only 5 miles per day through the forest.

And without half woodsmen, only 5 miles a day in open country!? Only 2.5 miles per day is heavy woods.

This is too slow.

I have implemented this house rule:
Half speed may be avoided with at least one Woodsman in the party, if the party travels in single file with the woodsman leading the line.

So, when they have a fight, at least they are in a realistic formation for moving through thick underbrush.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

Here is an aspect of Woodsman and the suggested travel speeds I feel is off.

ITL 41 under Woodsman, "party in the wilderness travels at half normal speed unless half (or more) of the characters are Woodsmen."

I take "Wilderness" to be anywhere outside that is not farm land or using roads/trails.

ITL 54 under Travel Speeds, "Use the following rates of speed for 5
mile/hex maps" and paraphrasing:
- 2 hex/day through open country
- 1 hex/day through heavy woods
- 2 days/hex through swamp or mountains

That means with at least half the party of woodsmen, traveling through open country only travels 10 miles in a day. Only 5 miles per day through the forest.

And without half woodsmen, only 5 miles a day in open country!? Only 2.5 miles per day is heavy woods.

This is too slow.

I have implemented this house rule:
Half speed may be avoided with at least one Woodsman in the party, if the party travels in single file with the woodsman leading the line.

So, when they have a fight, at least they are in a realistic formation for moving through thick underbrush.

I always thought that having one Woodsman should be sufficient for the bonus. I like your other movement rules.

[Shostak]

Woodsman does not specifically mention orienteering or navigating--but, for that matter, no talent does. It seems reasonable that Woodsman confers some ability to wayfind in the wilderness. If we allow that it does, is it then reasonable to require an IQ roll to determine the cardinal directions in general terms? Probably, because the possibility of getting lost seems like it would add fun to the game. If a success roll is required, Mathemetician should help, since it includes astronomy and astrology, and Astrologer should also probably help if we can assume that, unlike many of Earth's contemporary astrologers, Cidri's actually spend time looking at the night sky.

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Woodsman does not specifically mention orienteering or navigating--but, for that matter, no talent does. It seems reasonable that Woodsman confers some ability to wayfind in the wilderness. If we allow that it does, is it then reasonable to require an IQ roll to determine the cardinal directions in general terms? Probably, because the possibility of getting lost seems like it would add fun to the game. If a success roll is required, Mathemetician should help, since it includes astronomy and astrology, and Astrologer should also probably help if we can assume that, unlike many of Earth's contemporary astrologers, Cidri's actually spend time looking at the night sky.

Yes, there are already rules for getting lost. See ITL pg. 54. It has a lot to it including the Woodsman talent. This is my summary of it that I find is easier to use:

==========
Lost In Wilderness (ITL 54):
never lost If following: known road, river or coastline
never lost If have a native guide
flying or flying scout not lost If they know their route should be

Save vs getting lost is 3/IQ using done once / day (avg of party leader IQ & smartest party member IQ; round down)
- If any party member has Tracking or Woodsman: roll 1 less die (eg. 2/IQ instead).
- If any member of the party has traveled that route before, or if any member of the party can fly, or both, roll 1 less die
- Roll 1 more die for travel in forest or desert
- Roll 2 more dice for travel in mountains or swamp.
- Roll 1 more die if the party is already off course!

All these factors are cumulative; take them all into account before making the roll against IQ. Failing means they are 1 hex off course and lied to about where they are. (I take this to mean went just left or just right of target hex).

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

Yes, there are already rules for getting lost. See ITL pg. 54. It has a lot to it including the Woodsman talent.

True enough--and I am chagrined to not have remembered that page. I won't chalk it all up to aging grey matter, though. ITL's stellar organization is often less than helpful, with the Woodsman and Tracking talent descriptions failing to ever mention navigation lost and the index helpfully burying "Getting lost", "Orienteering", and "Navigating" under "Outdoor encounters". I suppose the PCs are encountering the possibility of being lost.

[David Bofinger]

I hate the way Woodsman and Tracking are useful in any environment. Perhaps I know how to find water in a desert and recognise the tracks of a muad'dib but that shouldn't be much use in a swamp.

Instead I would prefer a talent for each environment. I wrote this up in https://forums.sjgames.com/showpost....8&postcount=44. Feedback appreciated.

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

I hate the way Woodsman and Tracking are useful in any environment. Perhaps I know how to find water in a desert and recognise the tracks of a muad'dib but that shouldn't be much use in a swamp.

Instead I would prefer a talent for each environment. I wrote this up in https://forums.sjgames.com/showpost....8&postcount=44. Feedback appreciated.

<edited>

David,
I removed my feedback from this post and put it on the other thread. See it there.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

I hate the way Woodsman and Tracking are useful in any environment. Perhaps I know how to find water in a desert and recognise the tracks of a muad'dib but that shouldn't be much use in a swamp.

Instead I would prefer a talent for each environment. I wrote this up in https://forums.sjgames.com/showpost....8&postcount=44. Feedback appreciated.

I agree that Woodsman and Tracking are too universal, but given TFT's overall cinematic feel, there might be better ways to deal with the issue than having multiple talents (there just aren't enough points to spend on finely-tuned talents). For instance, perhaps one has to choose a type of region for Woodsman (which really ought to be named Wilderness Survival) and you get a penalty for trying to use the talent outside that region. After all, the basics of outdoor survival is to stay warm/cool, dry, fed, and hydrated. You probably don't need to be specifically trained in hot desert survival to know that you should travel by night and rest during the hot part of the day.