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Old 11-23-2022, 02:20 PM   #1
Rasna
 
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Location: Pisa, Tuscany, Italy
Default Polearms wielded with Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill (and vice-versa)

I don't know if there is already any rule covering this aspect, but if it isn't, I think that:

1) Reach 1, 2* Polearms should be elegible to be wielded with the Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill, which would involve a strong grip of both hands towards the butt of the weapons' shaft (http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources...s/arme_6-3.jpg). Wielding the weapon this way would give +1 to swing attacks only, but there are severe drawbacks too: the weapon's ST would rise by 1 for all attacks and after a swing attack the weapon would become unready (‡). Usage of Defensive Grip would be incompatible with the weapon wielded in this manner, unless the weapon is already included under Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill.

2) Consequentially, Reach 1, 2* weapons that fall under Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill should be elegible to be wielded with the Polearm skill, which would involve placing the leading hand towards the apex of the weapons' shaft. Wielding the weapon this way would give -1 to swing attacks only, but the weapon's ST would diminuish by 1 for all attacks and the weapon no longer would become unready (‡) after a swing attack. Usage of All-Out Attack (Long) would result incompatible with the weapon wielded this way, unless the weapon is already included under Polearm skill.

Game Example:

Pollaxe

With Polearm skill (usual):
sw+4 cr / Reach 1, 2* / Parry 0U / ST 12†
sw+3 imp / Reach 1, 2* / Parry 0U / ST 12†
thr+3 imp / Reach 1, 2* / Parry 0 / ST 11†

With Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill:
sw+5 cr / Reach 1, 2* / Parry 0U / ST 13‡
sw+4 imp / Reach 1, 2* / Parry 0U / ST 13‡
thr+3 imp / Reach 1, 2* / Parry 0 / ST 12†

Long Axe

With Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill (usual):
sw+3 cut / Reach 1, 2* / Parry 0U / ST 11‡

With Polearm skill:
sw+2 cut / Reach 1, 2* / Parry 0U / ST 10†

Last edited by Rasna; 11-23-2022 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 11-23-2022, 02:38 PM   #2
mlangsdorf
 
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Default Re: Polearms wielded with Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill (and vice-versa)

Looks good and balanced to me. Nice interpretation of the rules and weapon stats.
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Old 11-23-2022, 03:46 PM   #3
Rasna
 
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Default Re: Polearms wielded with Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill (and vice-versa)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
Looks good and balanced to me. Nice interpretation of the rules and weapon stats.
Thanks. I've noticed that in standard rules Reach 1, 2* Polearms have -1 to swing damage if confronted with Two-Handed Axes/Maces of similar weight, but they require less strenght and they don't become unready after the attack (Oar excluded, which is a bit odd considering that it's a Reach 1, 2* Polearm weighting 8 lbs., while the 10 lbs. Reach 1, 2* Pollaxe doesn't become unready after a swing attack and the points of balance [= weight distribution] of the two weapons should be quite similar to each other).

And maybe this change in stats depends principally from how these weapons are wielded.
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Old 11-25-2022, 02:35 AM   #4
Gef
 
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Default Re: Polearms wielded with Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill (and vice-versa)

It's consistent with the stat changes for naginata from Polearm to Two-Handed Sword skill.
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Old 11-28-2022, 01:58 PM   #5
Rasna
 
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Default Re: Polearms wielded with Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill (and vice-versa)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gef View Post
It's consistent with the stat changes for naginata from Polearm to Two-Handed Sword skill.
Yes, in that specific case the long blade of the Naginata makes plausible using the weapon with the Two-Handed Sword skill, wielded with a narrower space between the hands and near to the staff's end or relatively so. But except that Naginata doesn't become unready after an attack with Two-Handed Sword skill and there is no increment in weapon's ST, the changes in stats are the same.

Using the Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill with Polearms could be useful against heavy armoured foes. A combination of Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill and Telegraphic attack gives +1 swing damage and +4 to hit and would be useful while attacking a flanked enemy in a melee, because he would defend badly despite the Telegraphic Attack bonus to be parried and the attacker retain the ability of defending himself against another attack with the Dodge, the only drawback being the weapon becoming unready for the next turn.

Another possibility is the usage of Two-Handed Axe/Mace and All-Out Attack (Strong) against a heavy armoured foe who has been surrounded or is lying on the ground. That would be +3 swing damage if compared to the ordinary damage of the weapon Attack with Polearm skill. With a Pollaxe, that means +7 swing damage, 1d+9 damage is the wielder is ST 12: 10-16 damage would imply a wound of 4-28 HP (1-7, x4 with brain wound modifier) against a human skull (DR2) protected by a Medium Plate Bascinet (DR6) plus Padding (DR 1*, for a total DR of 6+1*+2=9).

But maybe the most useful application would be the combination of Two-Handed Axe/Mace grip and Defensive Attack. Since the state of unreadiness after an attack (‡) is related to the fact that the weapon is unbalanced (Parry U), and Defensive Attack imposes a tradeoff of -2 to damage in exchange for the weapon beign not unbalanced, a ‡ weapon would not be unbalanced (and thus unready) after a Defensive Attack. There are some real pollaxe plays of Fiore de' Liberi and Hans Talhoffer and halberd plays of Joachim Meyer that involve wielding the weapon with a grip compatible with the Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill, especially for strong parries followed by a counterattack. Confronted with an Attack with the Polearm grip, the Two-Handed Axe/Mace grip combined with Defensive Attack means -1 to swing damage but the possibility to parry after having done a swing attack. The fact that using Two-Handed Axe/Mace grip makes weapon's ST rises by 1 means that the user has to be quite strong and having his Two-Handed Axe/Mace skill in pair with his Polearm skill in order to use this combinatio at its best. Polearm grip remains the better for defending, especially in combination with Defensive Grip, and the fact that a 1, 2* Polearm doesn't become unready after a swing attack makes the grip much more versatile, having way more options of attack that wouldn't leave the weapon unready the next turn.

Thus, a 14th-16th century European Knight or Man-at-Arms would have had the skills of Lance, Polearm, Spear, Staff and Two-Handed Axe/Mace roughly at the same level. Maybe Lance at his top, in pair with Riding (both at +1 compared to the other primary weapon skills). It's possible to use Staff techniques with Spears, Polearms and in a certain extent even with Two-Handed Axes/Maces, and a Lance can be wielded in an uncouched manner like a 4 yards Pike on foot and on horseback (with both hands). A well-trained heavy infantryman like a Billman or a Halberdier would have had the very same skills without Lance (Default to Spear) and Riding (Default or DX+0 to DX+2 for mounted infantry).

Last edited by Rasna; 11-28-2022 at 02:03 PM.
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