Cyberpunk 2077 Guns

[MWnRNC]

Just for fun, I've been thinking about how I'd convert guns featured in Cyberpunk 2077. These break down into three categories:

Power
These are conventional guns that use cased ammo and allow you to use ricochets to hit targets at odd angles, around cover, etc. There are examples of Power revolvers, semi-auto & machine pistols, shotguns, SMGs, ARs, sniper rifles, and a LMG. Conservatively, I'd probably just use stats from TL8 guns and allow certain cyberware to grant the Bank Shot perk. Several weapons, such as Tamayura or Liberty seem like Desert Eagles or 1911s with the serial numbers filed off.

Would there be any reasonable, incremental improvements to guns firing cased ammunition from TL8 to TL9?

Tech
Tech weapons are described as rail guns and their gimmick is that they can be charged up before being fired in order to produce a more powerful shot that can also penetrate cover or walls. They explicitly use caseless ammunition and their reloads often look like they include some kind of power supply as well as bullets. The lore describes them as expensive and finicky to maintain. There are examples of tech revolvers, semi-auto pistols, a double-barrel shotgun, and sniper rifles. The Electrothermal-Chemical (ETC) option paired with TL9 caseless guns could fit, but TL10 electromagnetic guns might be more game-accurate, albeit with significantly fewer Shots.

I seem to remember that gauss weapons allowed boosted velocity shots, similar to the liquid propellant option, but I'm not sure this is RAW. Maybe this could be an alternate firing mode that increases damage but requires a few seconds between each shot?

Smart
Smart guns fire bullets that home in on their target once fired. The lore describes them as using gyrojets to fire caseless guided "micro-projectiles." Smart guns require particular cyberware (a Smart Link) to function and are somewhat rare/expensive. Once you aim at the target, your shots will curve and arc in the air toward it, even taking hard turns in order to hit behind or over cover. Some cyberware can jam the smart bullets, reducing their chance to hit. A particular advanced smart pistol allows you to specify limb vs. headshots for the gun. There are examples of smart machine pistols, shotguns, SMGs, an AR, and a sniper rifle.

This seems like the hardest one to convert. Gyrocs seem like the closest fit at TL9, but are also kind of the opposite of CP2077's presentation. Gyrocs have high damage, low RoF, and low Shots, while smart guns tend to have lower damage, high RoF, and high Shots. Smart guns also don't have lower damage at close range and, when fired from the hip, it sees like they should use their relevant Guns specialization, not Guns (Gyroc).

Higher-TL homing projectiles fired from conventional TL9 guns is another option, but since Infrared homing isn't available for 7mm ammo until TL11, each round ends up costing over $8 (assuming TL9 setting), which doesn't seem conducive to the "bullet-swarm" style in the game. Perhaps they are radio guided, rather than homing? If so, I don't see any Ultra-Tech options for guided bullets. One of the weapon's features may be programming it to try and hit the head or a limb, allowing the projectile to make its attack roll at a -7 or -2. I'm not sure about the bullet curving around cover, though. I'm wary of making smart guns too much like a magic missile that always hits.

I appreciate any thoughts or assistance on these!

[AlexanderHowl]

Cyberpunk 2020 was already TL9, they had fusion power and extensive space travel, so Cyberpunk 2077 is likely TL10 since I believe that it is the same setting, just +57 years. In that case, you only need 10mm bullets to have viper rounds, which are infrared homing rounds with skill 14 at TL10.

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by MWnRNC

Just for fun, I've been thinking about how I'd convert guns featured in Cyberpunk 2077. These break down into three categories:

Tech
Tech weapons are described as rail guns and their gimmick is that they can be charged up before being fired in order to produce a more powerful shot that can also penetrate cover or walls.

Rail guns are similar to gauss weapons in that they use electro-magnetism to fire their rounds rather than chemical propulsion.

I seem to remember that gauss weapons allowed boosted velocity shots, similar to the liquid propellant option, but I'm not sure this is RAW. Maybe this could be an alternate firing mode that increases damage but requires a few seconds between each shot?

That was probably in a Pyramid article. I would allow boosted/reduced shots for an extra cost.

Smart
Smart guns fire bullets that home in on their target once fired. ...

This seems like the hardest one to convert. Gyrocs seem like the closest fit at TL9, but are also kind of the opposite of CP2077's presentation. Gyrocs have high damage, low RoF, and low Shots, while smart guns tend to have lower damage, high RoF, and high Shots. Smart guns also don't have lower damage at close range and, when fired from the hip, it sees like they should use their relevant Guns specialization, not Guns (Gyroc).

I would create a class of 10mm gyroc-like weapons. Think about one that used electro-magnetic propulsion to fire the rocket initially, then the bullet wouldn't need to get a running start.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by MWnRNC

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Tech
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I seem to remember that gauss weapons allowed boosted velocity shots, similar to the liquid propellant option, but I'm not sure this is RAW. !

Absolutely RAW. You can boost the Gauss Shotgun Pistol to 8D+8.

Also, for purposes of UT there's no difference between "gauss guns" and "railguns" or even "coilguns". It's all just technobabble at this level of resolution.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by MWnRNC

Would there be any reasonable, incremental improvements to guns firing cased ammunition from TL8 to TL9?

HUD links of some flavor, projecting the aimpoint of the weapon onto the user's field of view (requiring HUD-compatible cyberware, glasses, helmet, etc), would have an effect comparable to a laser sight. Improvements in technology could yield more resilient/reliable weapons at low cost, yield better recoil compensation, etc. Improvements in manufacturing could result in more consistent bullet performance, potentially enough to render normal-price ammo comparable to purchased (but not hand-loaded) match-grade.

Originally Posted by MWnRNC

Tech

UT electromagnetic weapons can explicitly use the same reduced/boosted velocity options as liquid propellant (see UT141 and UT139). The reduced velocity option for many of the EM weapons probably shouldn't count as subsonic, however, at least not when it's only half damage - the weapons use tiny calibers (3-4mm, typically) and make up for it with incredible velocities, probably well in excess of Mach 2 (playing around a bit with Douglas Cole's ballistic's spreadsheet, it looks like getting 6d+2 out of a 4mm, 42gr projectile - that is, matching the performance of the Gauss Rifle - requires around Mach 3.5; at the sound barrier of 343 m/s, such a projectile would only be dealing around 1d+2).

Now, 2077 EM weapons may well use more traditional calibers and propel them at more traditional velocities; this would result in markedly fewer shots per magazine, as would the space in the magazine taken up by a power cell (UT EM weapons have a separate power cell, rather than one integrated into the magazine - which from your description it sounds like is the scheme used in 2077).

The "charge up" effect in 2077 probably isn't necessary, but likely makes for a fun visual effect (although I'll note I haven't played the game). If firing at max RoF requires the power supply to be discharging at its maximum safe rate, then you'd just see RoF cut in half for shots using twice normal energy (and dealing around +50% damage), but it's unlikely the power supply is at maximum safe rate in normal use. Do note UT only has "boosted" mode using 1.5x energy (and thus only dealing around +30% damage); you'll need to decide if that's sufficient, or if you want weapons to deal even more (but do note that, realistically, higher damage would mean higher felt recoil, and thus would call for higher MinST; +1/die is probably already enough to call for higher MinST, honestly - HT has +10% to damage calling for a full +10% to MinST).

Originally Posted by MWnRNC

Smart

Here it sounds like 2077 is allowing for unrealistically-small gyrocs and ignoring the speed up effect (that would have meant extra programming just to tick players off, honestly). As for weapon skill, I'd be inclined to use the reduced list of Guns specialties from "Alternate Guns Specialties and Techniques" (Pyramid #3/65). Gyrocs would function like normal weapons of the appropriate type (pistol or longarm) when fired from the hip or aimed without activating any special homing/guided/whatever function. Doing the latter would call for a Technique that basically lets you ignore range; honestly, homing weapons really need to use something like "On Target" (Pyramid #3/77), with an Aim roll to actually "lock on" or similar, for the characters skills to matter (by RAW, you basically just designate a target with Aim, the shoot and let the projectile/Advantage's skill take over). If you want it to be able to shoot around corners, that's probably a separate Technique, probably -2 per 45-degrees it would need to turn or similar. Bullet cost is up to you (if you're wanting to match 2077 performance, you may want to go with the same costs used there, unless it simplifies things by having all types of weapon use the same ammo).

[MWnRNC]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Cyberpunk 2020 was already TL9, they had fusion power and extensive space travel, so Cyberpunk 2077 is likely TL10 since I believe that it is the same setting, just +57 years.

I think you could make a compelling case for TL9 or TL10. Cyberpunk 2020 seems almost like TL8+1 nowadays. I think if it were solidly TL10, there'd be self-driving cars and far fewer people using TL8-style handguns.

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

That was probably in a Pyramid article.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Absolutely RAW.

Originally Posted by Varyon

UT electromagnetic weapons can explicitly use the same reduced/boosted velocity options as liquid propellant (see UT141 and UT139).

Definitely RAW, as Varyon cited.

Originally Posted by Varyon

Now, 2077 EM weapons may well use more traditional calibers and propel them at more traditional velocities.

Yes, this is why I was thinking ETC might be a better match to the actual behavior of the weapons in games, despite the lore. It would keep damage and shots reasonable and not require TL10.

Originally Posted by Varyon

The "charge up" effect in 2077 probably isn't necessary, but likely makes for a fun visual effect.

Weapon charge up times tend to feel video gamey, I think. It's probably more important that each weapon "feel" different in that medium than it is in a tabletop game. That said, GURB had an interesting post on using charge up times for laser design:
https://gurb3d6.blogspot.com/2017/05...hargin-ma.html

Originally Posted by Varyon

by RAW, you basically just designate a target with Aim, the shoot and let the projectile/Advantage's skill take over).

I think this is more in keeping with the setting, actually. The smart gun descriptions imply that a novice shooter can pick one up and achieve deadly results. Some of that is obviously advertising and hyperbole, but the idea of relying on the weapon's automated skill is a good one, I think.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by MWnRNC

Yes, this is why I was thinking ETC might be a better match to the actual behavior of the weapons in games, despite the lore. .

It might be closer to real potentials too. 40% of the recoil (Newtonian physics thing rather than Gurps stat) is in the moving propellant.

Getting rid of the propellant would get rid of that recoil too. You could then replace it with 40% more velocity whcih would boost damage 40%. Rounding up to 50% is just numerically neater. The +100% you see with the Gauss CAW and Gauss Shotgun Pistol are very likely to good to be true.

Forget about the 4mm/P- guns. They're Retrotech now. Nobody is going to try and build them in the Real World.