Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Board and Card Games > Ogre and G.E.V.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-01-2017, 07:35 AM   #1
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default GEV tactics cheatsheet

Sorry to be such a bother. I'll just have my say and quiet up for a spell again.

The CRT, like all nuclear bombardment, offers diminishing returns from the get-go. Only combine fire if the individual units are unable to have any chance of achieving the desired results on their own. An honest 1-to-2 attack is just fine, it's when things are 1-to-3 that you need to gang up.

Examples: Firing on a stack of identical units, if you get a 1-to-1 on the top unit then you'll have 1-to-2 reduced result spillovers on the rest and that's just fine. It's when you're 1-to-2 on the top unit that you need to combine fire to get the 1-to-2s on the rest of the stack. GEVs combine fire with Missile Tanks against SHVY, because the GEV is by itself a 1-to-3. Two Missile Tanks should each happily take the 1-to-2 attacks against SHVYs, unless the SHVYs are stacked. The same stacking logic applies to terrain conversion, with the twist that it's the lower attack force that gets to choose to risk terrain conversion or not.

Armor units are quite fragile. An armor unit subjected to a 1-to-1 attack has only a one-third chance of being available for your next turn. Almost all the time you should use movement and firepower to reduce the attacks your own armor units will be subjected to in return. Stacking your own armor units in order to combine fire (above the 1-to-2 level as noted above) is almost always a deadly mistake as this increases your own vulnerability. The three keys to keeping armor units around (to keep hammering at the enemy) are to use distance (above the strike radius of the enemy force), firepower (to apply vulnerability against the hostile force) and cover (as a last result, but it's of limited effectiveness against nuclear bombardment).

Infantry units are a bit sturdier than heavy armor, but they always give up the first strike to hostile armor units. This is a problem because each 1-to-1 attack reduces the available force by at least 44%. (Which is better than armor's 2/3rds, but still not nice.) In order to survive infantry requires overwhelming force, covering fire, and cover (but as above, this is of limited use). Having given up the first shot, infantry must press the attack thereafter, so as to not have to give up another first shot later. It's when they can no longer overrun or otherwise reach juicy enemy units that they scurry back to cover.

Ogres are big lumps of mobile defense, with a few weapons sprinkled on, but they wear their Achilles's tendons on the outside. The question is never how do you destroy all the bits on an ogre, but how do you destroy the parts that are critical to your objectives (such as say keeping your armor units active to keep hammering away at things). Reduce the ogre's strike radius (move plus range of weapons), attack radius (the number of units it can attack while standing in one spot), attack strength, and finally it's mobility. Note that the treads are even more effective weapons in GEV than OGRE so these need to be considered as a weapon to be reduced.

Command posts never hurt anybody and can't even run away, so these can usually be killed last.

SHVYs are very good value for the cost (My bad, check my big math mistake in The OGRE Book), but they're still just armor units so don't expose them to excess risks.

And lastly apparently nothing was learned from OGRE Minis about cruise missiles so shockwave the fnord out of any ogres that wander by.

Any questions before I go?
__________________
-HJC

Last edited by hcobb; 08-01-2017 at 04:46 PM. Reason: Yet another math error!
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 07:37 PM   #2
ianargent
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default Re: GEV tactics cheatsheet

Is it not written in the Ogre Book that 1-1 is all you need? (And proven, too)

I mean, if all you have is 1-2, take the shot, you might get lucky
ianargent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 07:38 PM   #3
ianargent
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default Re: GEV tactics cheatsheet

And, in fact, it seems to me that the games (both Ogre and GEV) are balanced around who can get 1-1 odds on whom in what combos.
ianargent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 09:42 PM   #4
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: GEV tactics cheatsheet

If you're up against two armor units then taking a 1-1 on just one of them has a 100% chance that one of them will be around to pound you next turn while two 1-2s has a one in nine chance that no fire will be returned against you next turn.

Counter example: On an infinite clear map, two GEVs have just moved to range two on a hostile Hvy with a second adjacent hostile Hvy at range three from the GEVs. It is now the GEV's firing phase.

Q1: What is the best actions for each side to take?

Q2: Why doesn't this contradict the assertion above?
__________________
-HJC

Last edited by hcobb; 08-02-2017 at 09:51 PM. Reason: quiz
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2017, 08:43 AM   #5
ianargent
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default Re: GEV tactics cheatsheet

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
If you're up against two armor units then taking a 1-1 on just one of them has a 100% chance that one of them will be around to pound you next turn while two 1-2s has a one in nine chance that no fire will be returned against you next turn.

Counter example: On an infinite clear map, two GEVs have just moved to range two on a hostile Hvy with a second adjacent hostile Hvy at range three from the GEVs. It is now the GEV's firing phase.

Q1: What is the best actions for each side to take?

Q2: Why doesn't this contradict the assertion above?
That's what makes the game interesting, innit? Playing the odds, and "best in general" doesn't mean "best in this instance."

Cheating and looking up the "Playing the odds" article, that 2x 1-2 vs 1x 1-1 is noted as being very nearly the same odds. The chances of a single X result are the same, but the chances of a D are worse (by that 1/9) and the chances of 2x NE are also 1/9 higher. But, you have that 1/9 of 2x D/X results. Which when shooting at a single target is overkill, but when shooting at 2 is maybe the hail-mary you need. Like poker, Ogre/GEV requires you know your odds.

In your hypothetical:
A1 GEV: the GEVs smash the one HT at 1-1 and flee so the far HT can't range on them in the next turn. Next turn, go find something safer to do if you can, move in and harry the tanks again if you can't. Even if the HTs follow their tactics, below (if they do, spillover fire for a 1-1 and a 1-2, don't split your fire), the GEVs have a ~15% chance of double-D+ on the stack, at which point they can go find something better to do and deal with the HTs at a more convenient time and place. If there's only one tank, "something better to do" may be taking the trailer, but you're gambling a little more than I like to.

A1 HT: Hope the lead HT doesn't take an X (1/3 chance to take an X no matter how the GEVs attack), stack the HTs and wait for the fanboys to make another attack run if you don't have a point to defend or if the lead tank takes a D, otherwise chase the GEVs with both tanks - the HT has 2-1 odds vs GEVs and a D is as good as an X in that situation. (You might be able to get away with putting them in adjacent hexes, depending on the geometry after the GEV second move, but they have an extra hex of movement to play with on their next attack run). If the lead HT eats an X, fall back towards friendly units. By stacking, even though you suffer an extra 1-2 attack from spillover, the GEVs can't outrun the survivors in their second move, and that favors the HTs. (Which is why they shouldn't make a second pass)


A2 GEV: The GEVs can't land a shot on the second HT at the opening of the problem, and 1-1 odds have only a 1/3 chance of NE, vs the 4/9 of NE of 2x 1-2. (If the near HT can fire next turn, it's going to be bad for one of the GEVs). When firing on the stack, 1-1 + 1-2 is better that 2x 1-2 in every way.

A2 HT: 2-1 is very nearly overkill vs GEVs as it is, 4-1 is unnecessary - HTs should never combine fire vs GEVs.

Incidentally, the GEVs may stack to attack, but break stack when they scatter. (May not must, because this is an open field, but by doing so it uncomplicates their approaches and retreats.)
ianargent is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tactics

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.