GURPS Voodoo 4e

[Icelander]

I was about to convert the power packages that Spirit Warriors get when they act as 'mounts' for various loas in GURPS Voodoo over to 4th Edition when it occured to me to check if someone had already done so.

A quick scan of GURPS Monster Hunters revealed that it is possible to play a Crusader who channels loa, but the GM or player must hand-assemble the specific powers from those available under Mysticism. By default, powers for voudon Crusaders don't come in the form of metatraits for each specific loa, with Disadvantages attached.

I thought maybe villainous bokors might get a few example powers in GURPS Monster Hunters: The Enemy, but didn't spot them if they did.

Is there a Pyramid article somewhere which does voodoo as a selection of loa-specific Alternate Form metatraits that characters can assume for a period of time, presumably with Preparation Required and Requires Reaction Roll?

Or has someone does something like this on the forums?

Or must I, sigh, 4e-fy the relevant sections of GURPS Voodoo myself?

[Refplace]

Cheviaia? In Maddness Dossair include some. You might chang them around but there a nice start.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Cheviaia? In Maddness Dossair include some. You might chang them around but there a nice start.

I had completely forgot that GURPS Madness Dossier had those. Happily, I have the book.

I found Chango in GURPS Thaumatology, too, which was nice.

It's a pity that the pricing for Alternate Forms makes it extremely expensive to have a powerful form that you can access only rarely, with great sacrifices and even then, you have limited control over.

The difference between a 1000 point form that you can use at will, without any meaningful mechanical limitations on when and where you can change, and a 1000-point which it is so hard to access that you manage it maybe once or twice over an adventuring career* is maybe 30-40 points.

That doesn't seem to me like a system where cost tracks well with effectiveness.

I've never understood why there wasn't any way to apply modifiers to the metatrait which a character could assume under certain circumstances. The 15-point cost of the Alternate Form isn't a significant enough part of the point budget for a powerful spirit warrior for it to be worth** accepting any Limitations to it.

Which is a problem, as I want possession by spirits to be extremely difficult, dangerous and rare.

Certainly there will be enough limitations to get around -80% and it feels wrong to me that it is so much more expensive to buy the Attributes and Advantages as part of a metatrait than to have them as unbunched abilities inherent to the character.

Alternate Form (+5 ST, +2 DX, +1 HT; Combat Reflexes, DR 2 (Tough Skin), Fearlessness 4; Bad Temper (12-), Overconfidence (12-); Quirks: Foul-mouthed, Swaggering; 8 points in combat skills) is worth 138 points if assuming or relinguishing it is a free action, but 111 if you can only use it on one particular night of the year, must sacrifice your firstborn to do so and can only retain the form for a brief window of time, whiel pursuing very specific goals.

That... doesn't seem to be enough difference in cost. Especially as this isn't, really, any kind of Alternate Form, it's just a collection of bonuses that you can get while your personlity is altered slightly.

It may very well be better to use Extra ST(/DX/HT/etc.) and Advantages that are Linked (+10%) and come with Temporary Disadvantages.

But that's a very clunky build.

*And after you used it, you are not certain that doing so was worth it, as the spirit had its own dangerous goals and motivations during your 'ride'.
**Game mechanically, at least.

[Icelander]

Touched by Ogun:
Attributes: ST +4 [40]; DX +2 [40]; HT +2 [20].
Advantages: Action Points +5 [10]; Charisma +2 (Always affects Intimidate +20%) [12]; Combat Reflexes [15]; Damage Reduction 2 (Tough Skin -40%) [6]; Fearlessness 2 [4].
Disadvantages: Bad Temper (15-) [-5]; Bloodlust (15-) [-5]; Overconfidence (15-) [-2].
Quirks: Likes Rum and Cigars; Risk-Taking Behaviour (Fighting); Shocking Affectation (Constant Swearing) [-3].
Skills: Brawling [4]; Intimidation [4]; Wrestling [4]; 8 points in first melee weapon used by host.
Cost 150

Possession by Ogun:
Attributes: ST +6 [60]; DX +3 [60]; HT +3 [30].
Advantages: Action Points +15 [30]; Charisma +3 (Always affects Intimidate +20%) [18]; Combat Reflexes [15]; Damage Reduction 2 (Tough Skin -40%) [6]; Damage Reduction 2 (Only vs. fire and iron -40%) [6]; Fearlessness 4 [8]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Weapon Master (Knifes and Machetes) [25].
Disadvantages: Bad Temper (12-) [-10]; Bloodlust (12-) [-10]; Compulsive Behaviour (Fighting) (12-) [-15]; Delusion (I am the Lord of Blood and Iron) [-15]; Odious Personal Habit (Constant swearing and swagger) [-5]; Overconfidence (12-) [-5].
Quirks: Likes Rum and Cigars; Shocking Affectation (Licks blood off weapons when he gets the chance) [-2].
Skills: Brawling [8]; Intimidation [8]; Knife [4]; Saber [12]; Wrestling [8] and 4 points in first melee weapon used by host (add to Knife or Saber if applicable).
Perks: Combat Shticks (Flourish, Follow-Through); Focused Fury; Penetrating Voice; Style Familiarity (Tire Machét); Weapon Adaptation (Machete with Saber) [4].
Cost 250

Incarnation of Ogun:
Attributes: ST +10 [100]; DX +4 [80]; HT +4 [40].
Secondary Attributes: Per +2 [10]; Will +2 [10].
Advantages: Action Points +20 [40]; Charisma +5 (Always affects Intimidate +20%) [30]; Damage Reduction 3 (Tough Skin -40%) [9]; Damage Reduction 3 (Only vs. fire and iron -40%) [9]; Enhanced Time Sense [45]; Extra Attack 1 [25]; Fearlessness 5 [10]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Weapon Master (All) [45].
Disadvantages: Bad Temper (6-) [-20]; Bloodlust (6-) [-20]; Compulsive Behaviour (Fighting) (6-) [-30]; Delusion (I am the Lord of Blood and Iron) [-15]; Odious Personal Habit (Constant swearing and swagger) [-5]; Overconfidence (6-) [-10].
Quirks: Likes Rum and Cigars; Shocking Affectation (Licks blood off weapons when he gets the chance) [-2].
Skills: Brawling [16]; Intimidation [12]; Main-Gauche [12]; Saber [20]; Wrestling [16] and 8 points in first melee weapon used by host (add to Knife or Saber if applicable).
Perks: Combat Shticks (Flourish, Follow-Through); Focused Fury; Style Familiarity (Tire Machét); Weapon Adaptation (Machete with Saber) [5].
Cost 500

[VikingGamer]

Veit ekkert um þetta enda nýr GURPS spilari, en hafði gaman að því að sjá annann íslending hér á stjá þannig að mér langaði bara að kasta á þig kveðju! o/ :)

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by VikingGamer

Veit ekkert um þetta enda nýr GURPS spilari, en hafði gaman að því að sjá annann íslending hér á stjá þannig að mér langaði bara að kasta á þig kveðju! o/ :)

Sæll og blessaður.

Við erum hér nokkrir.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I was about to convert the power packages that Spirit Warriors get when they act as 'mounts' for various loas in GURPS Voodoo over to 4th Edition when it occured to me to check if someone had already done so.

Fortunately, someone's already pointed out Alternate Form (Loa) from GURPS Horror: The Madness Dossier. I'm very pleased with the work Ken did on that.

I thought maybe villainous bokors might get a few example powers in GURPS Monster Hunters: The Enemy, but didn't spot them if they did.

They did, in Unholy Abilities, on pp. 30-31. I did not stat them up as sample traits, however, as my intent was for these to be something the bad guys use (not the PCs). Still, it shouldn't be too hard to turn the descriptions into full builds if needed.

[Ulzgoroth]

For something that's so marginally controllable or accessible, it might be more reasonable to stat it as a Patron (or Ally) rather than as an alternate form. A powerful one with Possession and abilities that grant Advantages to possessed bodies.

The implication, of course, would be that you are really not in any sort of control during this state. Very much 'Oggun, take the wheel' as opposed to 'lend me your aspect'.


Though this is in part a workaround, and I agree that the impossibility of marking down Alternate Forms to a useful degree is an issue.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

For something that's so marginally controllable or accessible, it might be more reasonable to stat it as a Patron (or Ally) rather than as an alternate form. A powerful one with Possession and abilities that grant Advantages to possessed bodies.

The implication, of course, would be that you are really not in any sort of control during this state. Very much 'Oggun, take the wheel' as opposed to 'lend me your aspect'.

That could work for the more powerful and dangerous possessions, yes. It is, however, more of a handwave than it is anything else. Of course, as the GM, I can assign the NPCs, before, after and during possession, any kind of stats and personality I want.

I was idly statting it out in case a PC or one of their allies should develop such a power.

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Though this is in part a workaround, and I agree that the impossibility of marking down Alternate Forms to a useful degree is an issue.

It's frustrating that using the simpler and cleaner method of calling the modification to stats a metatrait yields much higher point costs than buying the Attributes and Advantages with suitable limitations.

It shouldn't cost so much more to get an inferior effect. Being able engineer possession that grants certain bonuses through a long ceremony which requires hard-to-get, illegal or immoral sacrifices is not equal in value to having those bonuses all the time with a Magical (-10%) power modifier and maybe the occasional Pact limitation.

Having to pay 90% of the full value of game traits that amount to bonuses which are available to you in maybe 2% of important encounters isn't It Costs What It Costs, it's some bizarre tax on using Alternate Form.

[Refplace]

Of course if you have more then one it gets a lot more attractive and with enough you then head towards Morph which could be nearly infinite in options.