[Infinite Worlds] Campaigns in 'Alternate Futures'?

[The big one]

What I mean by that is whether it's possible to have Worldlines whose local dates are not only 'ahead' of Homeline, but are also infact the future of an alternate history? For example:

'Petrov', a worldline where the local year is 2283...300 years after an accidental nuclear war caused most of the global North to flatline, leaving the Global south to pick up the pieces.

Or *'Gurkani-beyond', a hard sci-fi space opera set in a settled solar system with the local year being some point in the 25th century...in a world where The Mughal Empire underwent an Industrial revolution.

*Can worldline names have more than one letter?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by The big one

What I mean by that is whether it's possible to have Worldlines whose local dates are not only 'ahead' of Homeline, but are also infact the future of an alternate history? For example:
.

By Homeline theory (and probably Centrum too) such timelines could exist "somewhere" but not in the framework of timelines that are accessible to Homeline (or probably Centrum either).

So if your question is can these "Alternate Futures" exist within the Infinite Worlds setting the answer is effectively no because you can't get there from the IW's "here".

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by The big one

What I mean by that is whether it's possible to have Worldlines whose local dates are not only 'ahead' of Homeline, but are also infact the future of an alternate history? For example:

'Petrov', a worldline where the local year is 2283...300 years after an accidental nuclear war caused most of the global North to flatline, leaving the Global south to pick up the pieces.

Or 'Mughal Infinite', a hard sci-fi space opera set in a settled solar system with the local year being some point in the 25th century...in a world where The Mughal Empire underwent an Industrial revolution.

Officially Homeline can not reach such a setting. Of course there's nothing keeping you from setting a game centuries in Homeline's future. You could also just ignore the restriction but that might not be advisable since given Homeline access to large numbers of far future realities would tend to cast Homeline in the shade and put it in a situation it could not cope with.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

By Homeline theory (and probably Centrum too) such timelines could exist "somewhere" but not in the framework of timelines that are accessible to Homeline (or probably Centrum either).

So if your question is can these "Alternate Futures" exist within the Infinite Worlds setting the answer is effectively no because you can't get there from the IW's "here".

Even if those theories are true, presumably it would be possible to travel to a future timeline with a conveyor that was created in a timeline further along. Just like Reich-5 operatives could, at least theoretically, use a captured Homeline conveyor to travel to basically anywhere a conveyor can normally go (IIRC, basically anywhere in the same Quantum, at the same or earlier local date as Homeline; you need a Projector to go to a different Quantum), so too could Homeline operatives snatch up a conveyor from some far-future parachronic power, say if the two groups encounter each other on some third timeline, and at the very least use (if not outright reverse-engineer to reproduce) such to travel to future timelines.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Officially Homeline can not reach such a setting. Of course there's nothing keeping you from setting a game centuries in Homeline's future. You could also just ignore the restriction but that might not be advisable since given Homeline access to large numbers of far future realities would tend to cast Homeline in the shade and put it in a situation it could not cope with.

Aren't there already settings with technology well-advanced compared to Homeline (or at least where Homeline was when it reached them, I think it's seen some significant advancement from incorporating tech from such timelines), despite being set in an earlier year, due to a history that more strongly encouraged scientific advancement? Granted, having access to an infinite number of such would probably warp the setting too much, but a few wouldn't break anything.


Of course, an alternative option (and apologies if I'm getting the lore wrong here) could be that Homeline can build conveyors that can go to future timelines, but what Van Zandt used to gain a functional monopoly on the production of such was showing just how dangerous accessing said timelines would be to Homeline, and successfully arguing that, with him (and his heirs, if applicable) in control, all the conveyors would be hobbled to be unable to travel to such timelines and bring disaster to the world. Without him (and his heirs) in control, people will figure out how to travel to various futures and wind up inviting disaster. Why Centrum (and I think maybe another timeline or two) are in the same boat would still be up in the air - maybe they have similar arrangements in play, Van Zandt is actually part of a conspiracy amongst all such parachronic powers, or whatever.

If that's the case, the party might be part of a secret group working for Van Zandt (or a competitor) using a custom-built conveyor. Or maybe they manage to "jailbreak" and existing one, giving it access to future timelines.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Even if those theories are true, presumably it would be possible to travel to a future timeline with a conveyor that was created in a timeline further along. J

Nope, you're trying to move in time _and_ dimension. In the IW framework only moving in dimension is possible. They get to other dimensions that have different dates because time moves slightly slower in those dimensions. Over the more than 10 billion years of the universes this slower time flow adds up to years, hundreds or thousands and i think in at least one case millions of years.

In time travel terms the whole IW framework has one single _NOW!_ with different local dates with Homeline, Centrum, Shikaku Mon etc at the most advanced date. There is no true travelling in time, only traveling to other dimensions with different local dates. Leave Homeline on Jan.1 2027 (or whatever their current date is) and spend one day adventuring and you will return to Homeline on Jan. 2 2027.

This is a fundamental property in the local paraphysics. It's why there are no FTL starships on any world Homeline can reach (see the relevant textbox in
IW) and it appears to forbid time travel (locally)l too. None has been discovered yet anyway.

It's called "Infimite Worlds" partly because of Infinity's advertising but while tere may be an unlimited number of worlds in the IW framework those worlds msut share the common limitations of that framework. IW does _not_ include everything from everywhere and everywhen imagnable!

[The big one]

Originally Posted by Varyon

snip

I also remember reading somewhere that The Transhuman space setting is also a part of The IW multiverse. And funnily enough, it can be considered an 'Alternate future history' now, due to its geopolitics being some 23 years out of date.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Nope, you're trying to move in time _and_ dimension. In the IW framework only moving in dimension is possible. They get to other dimensions that have different dates because time moves slightly slower in those dimensions. Over the more than 10 billion years of the universes this slower time flow adds up to years, hundreds or thousands and i think in at least one case millions of years.

I was aware that IW Parachronics didn't involve actual time travel, simply travel to different timelines, but was unaware that all timelines essentially started at the same moment and the differences in local dates were complements of each timeline progressing at slightly-different rates. Now, obviously, there would be some timeline (or timelines) that would have the fastest rate of time progression, but it isn't necessary that Homeline etc be those timelines, unless there's something making it so only the most temporally-advanced timelines are capable of independently developing parachronics. I was simply giving a means by which future timelines could exist but be impossible for Infinity's conveyors to get there (with ways for the party to get there, or otherwise interact with those future timelines). Admittedly, it's a bit harder to justify Jumpers not being able to visit these future timelines...

Originally Posted by The big one

I also remember reading somewhere that The Transhuman space setting is also a part of The IW multiverse. And funnily enough, it can be considered an 'Alternate future history' now, due to its geopolitics being some 23 years out of date)

I vaguely recall coming across a mention of this, but I think it was in reference to the 3e precursor to 4e's Infinite Worlds setting, where future timelines weren't forbidden. Of course, any setting that is meant to be our future becomes alternate history at best the day after the final draft is submitted, because nobody can accurately predict the future. And that "at best" is stretching things - even if the author is keeping up to date on everything going on right up until submission, they won't be able to account for future discoveries about the past, so their setting will be inaccurate from the start.

[Prince Charon]

One interesting anomaly that could fit here (not sure if it's been suggested in this thread, as I was skimming, but I think it was brought up in other threads, some time ago) is that a timeline might be in one era based on the positions of stars and the shapes and positions of the continents, but another based on in-worldline history. For example, a Star Trek myth parallel where the current year is supposed to be 2267, with TL(7+4)^ Safe Tech, but the date that Homeline astronomers get from watching the skies is 1967.

[Fred Brackin]

[QUOTE=Varyon;2502729 Now, obviously, there would be some timeline (or timelines) that would have the fastest rate of time progression, but it isn't necessary that Homeline etc be those timelines, unless there's something making it so only the most temporally-advanced timelines are capable of independently developing parachronics. .[/QUOTE]

It's not parachronics in toto but specifically the projectors that may be combined with conveyors to make one or two quantum jumps. Those only work on timelines that have the same date as Homeline.

If you want a Jumper to wander off to some line where time travel is possible he'll need to get out of the local framework. This would be Jumpers capable of crossing Quantum boundaries and not all Jumpers can do that. Even with Quantum-crossing Jumpers you'd need to go at least below Quantum 3 (Homeline's limit) or higher than Quantum 10 (Centrum's limit). There's no guarantee time travel lines will be that close either. It's just where the "Unknown Territory" .starts.

[Willy]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

SNIP

If you want a Jumper to wander off to some line where time travel is possible he'll need to get out of the local framework. This would be Jumpers capable of crossing Quantum boundaries and not all Jumpers can do that. Even with Quantum-crossing Jumpers you'd need to go at least below Quantum 3 (Homeline's limit) or higher than Quantum 10 (Centrum's limit). There's no guarantee time travel lines will be that close either. It's just where the "Unknown Territory" .starts.

Depends Infinity is far further than they officially say. In Infinite Worlds is on p 30 a few sentences about the Alea, which is able to go much further and theoretically can cross the Quantum barrier at Quantum 0. In a nutshell it´s a conveyor which works as it´s own projector.

My two cent for this idea are. First there is no reason why centrum shouldn´t be able to build such a system sooner or later.

Second also sooner or later another big player will enter the field, several other timelines are short before the point they could or even technologically much further than homeline. It´s a matter of time.

Third even if Infinity does everything to keep the secret, Infinity has limited ressources, but infinite places to look after. No chance they could stopp the secret from getting out.