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Old 03-06-2023, 10:34 PM   #11
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Shield Expertise

Glad to see a new post from you Shostak.

I like Shield Expertise. It creates a new path for fighters. It Classic TFT it was basically two paths: get stronger or quicker. "Progression to 2 handed weapons" was a thing. That makes no sense. Now a third path for fighters: get skilled.

Locked into a path? That sounds a bit like life. Some people puts years into a deep skill. David does have a good point that the thief skills are better broken up to be specific but it really will depend on how it is implemented.

Should Shield Expertise increase the damage inflicted by a spike shield?
> No. This talent is a bargain as it is and damage from a shield is a secondary benefit at best.

Would Shield Expertise be improved if the penalty to attacks made against a
Shield Expertís front hexes were based on the DX penalty imposed by the shield instead of a flat rate regardless of shield size?
> No. This would be a huge increase to the effectiveness of this talent. From my experience in the SCA, as a fighter's skill with shields increase often they worked their way to smaller shields. I like the DX -1 across and Damage -1 this talent currently gives regardless of shield size.

Is the IQ10 prerequisite realistic or desirable?
> I like IQ10 for it. A good balance. I like that it comes a point earlier than Weapon Expertise (IQ11). It is also a nice skill for one the smart utility type of characters to pick up. For example, the naturalist or physicker. Give him armor & skills to keep protect him from damage. That DX -1 to getting hit seems to hurt even more when you defend, so perfect for these guys.

Do you think Shield Expertise has contributed to fewer characters using two-handed weapons?
> I doubt it. We have several players that like 2 handed polearms. Now big two handed weapons that are not polearms (Great Hammer, Battleaxe, etc) I have see less of since Legacy but it has not been because of Shield Expertise. Some take Shield Expertise, but it not something they all have.

Do you have a house rules adjustments to Shield Expertise?
> no.


BTW, with regards to the shield rush bonus, as mentioned by others shield rush action is almost never taken. Now with Shield Expertise, I actually had a player give it a try. So, this talent promotes some additional tactics.

Shield rush has always been a nice choice against someone weaker than you AND in heavy armor. Get them on the ground! But the mechanics of it makes it nearly impossible to be worth a try. At least with this talent its may have some more use.
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Old 03-07-2023, 10:55 AM   #12
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Shield Expertise

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Weapon: very fine trident (1d+2)
Just clarifying that this is an illegal weapon build by RAW that limit damage bonus to cutting weapons (ITL 123).
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Old 03-07-2023, 10:58 AM   #13
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Shield Expertise

A dagger can do extra damage but generally only has a stabbing action.

The big problem with Shield Expertise is it goes away the instant the user is swept off his feet by a martial arts or bola throw.
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Old 03-07-2023, 11:50 AM   #14
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Shield Expertise

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
A dagger can do extra damage but generally only has a stabbing action.

The big problem with Shield Expertise is it goes away the instant the user is swept off his feet by a martial arts or bola throw.
Also goes away when someone jump into HTH. And that is good that it has its place.
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Old 03-07-2023, 02:34 PM   #15
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Shield Expertise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
Just clarifying that this is an illegal weapon build by RAW that limit damage bonus to cutting weapons (ITL 123).
Thanks for pointing that out, Shostak. I'd plumb forgotten that rule.

I will, sadly, also forget it again, within a day or two. But if it happens to come up in the next 24 hours or so, you've done me a service.
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Old 03-07-2023, 02:35 PM   #16
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Shield Expertise

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
A dagger can do extra damage but generally only has a stabbing action.

The big problem with Shield Expertise is it goes away the instant the user is swept off his feet by a martial arts or bola throw.
That's the big problem, is it?
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Old 03-10-2023, 09:51 PM   #17
John.A.Hanna
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Shield Expertise

Additionally, Shield Expertise has a slight disadvantage in tradeoff vs DX (rather than IQ) when being Trampled. That being said, trampling is less common than being attacked, so a minor disadvantage.
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Old 03-11-2023, 08:52 AM   #18
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Shield Expertise

Shield Expertise ought to apply your DX minus from your shield against attacks against you, as your character will know how to hide behind the larger shields.
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Old 03-11-2023, 09:33 AM   #19
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Shield Expertise

Quote:
Originally Posted by John.A.Hanna View Post
Additionally, Shield Expertise has a slight disadvantage in tradeoff vs DX (rather than IQ) when being Trampled. That being said, trampling is less common than being attacked, so a minor disadvantage.
I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying here. A slight disadvantage compared to what? And what effect does Shield Expertise have on DX?

Are you saying that because it's IQ 10, the average character with Shield Expertise will have a lower DX than one without? I mean, maybe, but (1) there's plenty of reasons to prefer an IQ 10 over an IQ 9 and Shield Expertise is only one of them and (2) if we really care about that one or two points of IQ required for Shield Expertise, there's rather a lot more reasons to care about it than being trampled.
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Old 03-11-2023, 09:46 AM   #20
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Shield Expertise

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Shield Expertise ought to apply your DX minus from your shield against attacks against you, as your character will know how to hide behind the larger shields.
What problem does it solve? I think you're saying that the to-hit benefit ought to scale with the size of the shield because it's more realistic if it does, but I'm not sure that is more realistic. After all, the to-hit benefit makes it harder for the attack to succeed at all. Does a larger shield make it harder to land a blow one one? The whole relation between game mechanics and how "realistic" combat works is a little too vague for me to understand whether or not scaling to-hit benefits is the more realistic option.

Of course, there are other considerations. If Shield Expertise really does discourage two-handed weapons, then making the defensive benefit scale with shield size will mollify this effect somewhat -- not because the larger shields get more benefit so much as because the commonest shield (in my experience) gets no benefit at all. This means that to get a real benefit in terms of avoiding hits with Shield Expertise, one would have to commit to a shield with a DX penalty. In fact, the penalty to one's to hit roll would be equal to the benefit one gains in avoiding a hit (in terms of modifiers, not probabilities, of course).
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