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Old 11-23-2017, 11:00 PM   #1
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Dual Weapon Attack with Rapid Strike

I would like to know where it says in the rules that you are forbidden from combining Dual-Weapon Attack with Rapid Strike because I cannot find the specific rule in Campaigns or Martial Arts. In fact, I can find a specific example in Martial Arts (p. 120-121 under Rapid Strike with Thrown Weapons) where a character is allowed to Rapid Fire with each Dual Weapon Attack for a total a six thrown weapons in one turn without ATR or Extra Attack! So, can you combine Dual-Weapon Attack and Rapid Fire only with small thrown weapons or can you combine them with melee weapons as well?
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:13 AM   #2
roguebfl
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Default Re: Dual Weapon Attack with Rapid Strike

GURPS Martial Arts, pp. 126-127

and the thrown weapon exception is stated as a explicit, exception that can only be using the that narrow case of small thrown weapons.
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Old 11-24-2017, 02:00 AM   #3
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Default Re: Dual Weapon Attack with Rapid Strike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
Allowing it with all weapons/unarmed as a house rule seems right to me. Throwing 4 left punches in a second shouldn't be as easy as throwing 2 left / 2 right in 1 sec.
the One/two punch (aka both hands) is still a Rapid Strike, not a Dual Weapon Strike, the point is Dual Weapon Strike isn't Two weapons, it the near similarity that accounted for the -1 defenses.

The small thrown weapons rapid strike is more about holding multiple weapon in the same hand (and mirroring it in both hands adding the dual weapon strike)
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Old 11-24-2017, 03:11 AM   #4
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Default Re: Dual Weapon Attack with Rapid Strike

Quote:
Originally Posted by roguebfl View Post
the One/two punch (aka both hands) is still a Rapid Strike, not a Dual Weapon Strike, the point is Dual Weapon Strike isn't Two weapons, it the near similarity that accounted for the -1 defenses.

True. But as per the two handed combination rules, the penalties are -4/-4 for the first two attacks (with alternate hands) the same as DWA, after that it's -6.

Personally I don't have a major issue with just calling DWA a type of RS (the -1 defence being special effect of them landing near simultaneously). So to the OP question I wouldn't then allow a DWA to itself be constituent part of a RS.

I'm pretty sure by RAW intention you can't make DWA part of a RS anyway

This begs the question though should WM reduce the penalty for DWA to -2/-2 in general outside of combinations (which would have knock on effects for the DWA technique) and does WM really need a boost!

Last edited by Tomsdad; 11-24-2017 at 03:21 AM.
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:14 AM   #5
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Dual Weapon Attack with Rapid Strike

WM is a great advantage in Low-Tech campaigns, but it really loses its utility in High-Tech and Ultratech campaigns. I would like there to be a seperate High-Tech and Ultratech version of WM that each modify more advanced weapons. Imagine being able to increase the damage of a revolver during a Western campaign by +2 per dice or to enhance the damage of a laser pistol with Power Blow during a Space campaign!
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:21 AM   #6
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Default Re: Dual Weapon Attack with Rapid Strike

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
WM is a great advantage in Low-Tech campaigns, but it really loses its utility in High-Tech and Ultratech campaigns. I would like there to be a seperate High-Tech and Ultratech version of WM that each modify more advanced weapons. Imagine being able to increase the damage of a revolver during a Western campaign by +2 per dice or to enhance the damage of a laser pistol with Power Blow during a Space campaign!
Isn't there a gun slinger version (sorry not really my area!)

edit: yep "gunslinger" pg58 is not an exact match for WM but then Missile attacks work differently from Melee attacks. certainly no adding to base weapon damage!

Last edited by Tomsdad; 11-25-2017 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:29 AM   #7
Culture20
 
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Default Re: Dual Weapon Attack with Rapid Strike

WeaponMaster:ForceSword(Lightsaber) is crazy with the damage bonuses.
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:48 AM   #8
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Dual Weapon Attack with Rapid Strike

Yeah, Gunslinger is the cinematic enabling advantage comparable to Weapon Master for firearms and beam weapons. It does allow you to purchase some of the cinematic skills relevant to the weapons it covers - GURPS Gun-Fu is probably the most comprehensive guide to its benefits right now.

It doesn't allow Power Blow, for good reason, I think. First, it's much easier to get high damage with a firearm than a muscle-powered weapon - muscle-powered weapons need you to increase your ST, whereas a more-damaging firearm is just a matter of walking into Wally's Wacky Weapon World, putting cash on the barrelhead, and saying "I'd like the biggest gun, please". That easy access to extra damage means anything adding more to that damage needs to be more limited. Second, you'd have to revise how Power Blow worked anyway, since currently it doubles (or triples) your ST, which really has no relevance to firearms. Also, the current scheme, of having to concentrate for multiple seconds before unleashing your power, doesn't really make much sense in a guns/laser pistols context. What are you doing in those seconds to improve your damage? If it's improving the accuracy of the shot, well, Gunslinger already does that by default, and allows you to buy Zen Marksmanship (Zen Archery for firearms) to further improve it.

In any case, I would actually disagree that Weapon Master loses a great deal of utility in Ultra-Tech games. The trick is to take it with ultra-tech weapons. Armor divisors are definitely nice here. A Weapon Master with Force Sword can be quite effective, even against foes armored in ultra-tech, because a base damage of 8d and armor divisor of (5) can cut through DR 140, on average. Martial Arts also suggests allowing the damage bonuses from Weapon Master and Power Blow to apply to force swords, for specific weapons the character crafts themselves, and probably has a Weapon Bond with. I'd argue that it's reasonable to extend this and allow a perk that applies the Weapon Master bonuses to a specific type of weapon that does non-ST-based damage. So you could have a perk of "Weapon Master damage bonus applies to monowire whip damage", and get the extra +1 or +2 damage bonus from the 1d of damage a monowire whip adds to thrust damage.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:17 AM   #9
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Dual Weapon Attack with Rapid Strike

Quote:
Originally Posted by roguebfl View Post
GURPS Martial Arts, pp. 126-127

and the thrown weapon exception is stated as a explicit, exception that can only be using the that narrow case of small thrown weapons.
Can you give the exact text because I am still not seeing it forbidden on those pages (though Combinations forbids both)
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:26 AM   #10
munin
 
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Default Re: Dual Weapon Attack with Rapid Strike

Martial Arts suggests the cinematic option of allowing more than one rapid strike (p. MA127) at a cumulative -6 penalty for all attacks (-6/-6 for two, -12/-12/-12 for three, -18/-18/-18/-18 for four, etc.).

I think it would be balanced to trade two of those attacks for a dual weapon attack; for example, -4/-4 for a regular DWA, -10/-10/-12 for DWA+1RS, -16/-16/-18/-18 for DWA+2RS, etc.
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