Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-28-2024, 05:10 PM   #11
Michael Thayne
 
Michael Thayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Default Re: When did demons get free immunity to mind control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
No, Spirit Empathy isn't a counter to Indomitable.
There was confusion about this in the Template Toolkit: Spirits playtest, and I'm really hoping the final manuscript will clarify it.

Back to the main theme of this thread, I maybe should have tagged this thread with [Dungeon Fantasy], since that's really where the concept of "Demons" as a distinct class of being becomes important. Whatever the story is there, it's definitely not a story that takes place in the 3e era.
__________________
Innkeeper's Quest: A GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Forum Quest

Handle is a character from the Star*Drive setting (a.k.a. d20 Future), not my real name.
Michael Thayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2024, 05:34 PM   #12
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: When did demons get free immunity to mind control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
No, Spirit Empathy isn't a counter to Indomitable.
It's not a universal counter, but it's a counter in specific cases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic Rules p60
You are impossible to influence through ordinary words or actions. Those who wish to use Influence skills on you (see Influence Rolls, p. 359) must possess a suitable advantage: Empathy (p. 51) if you are a human or similar being, Animal Empathy (p. 40) if you’re a beast, Plant Empathy (p. 75) if you’re a plant, or Spirit Empathy (p. 88) if you’re a demon, ghost, etc.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2024, 05:50 PM   #13
ravenfish
 
Join Date: May 2007
Default Re: When did demons get free immunity to mind control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
It's reasonable that "immune to one special ability but subject to another special ability that doesn't work against most characters" is a wash.
But what is the counterbalancing ability that demons are vulnerable to in exchange for immunity to Mind Control? There is explicitly no "Control Demon" spell, as there is for animals and elementals.
__________________
I predicted GURPS:Dungeon Fantasy several hours before it came out and all I got was this lousy sig.
ravenfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2024, 06:01 PM   #14
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: When did demons get free immunity to mind control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
There was confusion about this in the Template Toolkit: Spirits playtest, and I'm really hoping the final manuscript will clarify it.
Hopefully we see tomorrow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenfish View Post
But what is the counterbalancing ability that demons are vulnerable to in exchange for immunity to Mind Control? There is explicitly no "Control Demon" spell, as there is for animals and elementals.
Depends on the magic system in use, but in several of them Control Spirit or a varation works.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2024, 09:30 PM   #15
lugaid
 
lugaid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA USA
Default Re: When did demons get free immunity to mind control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Depends on the magic system in use, but in several of them Control Spirit or a varation works.
Or the Exorcism skill.
lugaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2024, 09:32 PM   #16
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: When did demons get free immunity to mind control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
Th
Back to the main theme of this thread, I maybe should have tagged this thread with [Dungeon Fantasy], since that's really where the concept of "Demons" as a distinct class of being becomes important.a.
I would have to describe this position as an illusion based on a very limited perspective. From the beginning, be that the beginning of Gurps or only the beginning of DFRPG the game's intent has been that you can't get around the difficulty of controlling demons with a Mind Control spell.

If your concern is only that demons need to _pay_ for that on their character sheets reverse "Divine Curse" into "Infernal Blessing" and charge whatever you want. For npcs how much isn't important. For PCs you've established that it comes from a source that won't do business with them. Uber-demons are more likely to use Mind Control on humans than grant them immunity from those spells.

If you don't like that there's still the "alien minds" aspect and most animals are immune to Mind Control but vulnerable to Animal Control Spells(which humans in turn are immune to) and it's not given a point cost on their templates.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2024, 03:16 PM   #17
pawsplay
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: When did demons get free immunity to mind control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
No, Spirit Empathy isn't a counter to Indomitable.
I'm not sure what larger point you are making, but it is.

Quote:
Spirit Empathy
(p. 88) if you’re a demon, ghost, etc.
If you're a demon, Spirit Empathy will overcome Indomitable.

This is kind of a tangent from the OP, but different classes of minds are definitely baked into the rules here and there. Since I probably wouldn't build mind control with Accessibility (not demons), I would assume the relevant immunity goes on the demon character sheet.
pawsplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2024, 03:34 PM   #18
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: When did demons get free immunity to mind control?

Hopefully the entry on Indomitable in TT:Spirits, p. 8 makes some of this more clear.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.