Shooting at things bigger than you... Relatively speaking.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by robkelk

Don't we?

Hitting the eye of a SM +3 giant would be -9+3 = -6
Hitting the eye of a SM -4 pixie would be -9-4 = -13

I think...

Every group I've ever played with does it this way.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I like the "minimum range penalty is your sign reversed size modifier" house rule.

It has the virtue of making shooting work the same at different scales -- a human shooting at another human at one human-height or less is at +0, and the same for a SM+10 giant monster shooting another SM+10 giant monster at 1 giant-monster height (100 yards), or a SM -6 pixie shooting another SM-6 pixie at 1 pixie-height (7").

[Unwashed Mass]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It has the virtue of making shooting work the same at different scales -- a human shooting at another human at one human-height or less is at +0, and the same for a SM+10 giant monster shooting another SM+10 giant monster at 1 giant-monster height (100 yards), or a SM -6 pixie shooting another SM-6 pixie at 1 pixie-height (7").

This shifts the 0 up or down based on your SM, correct? This is something that helps. The Speed/Range table is based on a SM 0 perspective.

[Unwashed Mass]

I see now that hit location adds to the SM to figure out your to hit, but why do 2 pixies 1 foot away* from each other have a -9 to hit each others vitals?

They are of equal size. It would be the same as 2 humans shooting from 2 yds away at each other, but that's only a -3.

*1 foot would be the "0" range using the above rule.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

...I think you're the only one suggesting...

I'm not suggesting anything; I'm asking why shooter size is relevant. The question also applies to SMs larger than 0; the same example scenarios can easily be reversed.

[Unwashed Mass]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

I'm not suggesting anything; I'm asking why shooter size is relevant. The question also applies to SMs larger than 0; the same example scenarios can easily be reversed.

Since the Speed/Range table is based off SM 0.

Anyone, regardless of SM, is at a net 0 to hit a SM+4 giant from 10 yds away. A pixie, a human, another giant or even a SM+10 super.

Becoming a SM-10 super with a ranged ability just makes you harder to hit. Everyone is still their normal penalty to hit as when you were SM 0.

Or even more oddly, a pixie aiming for a humans arm is still at -2 even though the arm is bigger than him.

[ErhnamDJ]

Are y'all saying that it's harder for a centaur to shoot a deer with a rifle than it is for a normal-sized human? And that it's easier for a small child to shoot a deer with the same rifle than it is for the normal-sized human?

Do I get a bonus if I chop my legs off?

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Unwashed Mass

Unfortunately, no.

RAW is the SM of the target unless you're attacking a location.

Therefore everyone's eyes are 2 inches across.

No, the RAW gives penalties for hit locations in addition to all other modifiers. Good luck ever shooting a pixie in the eye!

[acrosome]

Originally Posted by Unwashed Mass

I see now that hit location adds to the SM to figure out your to hit, but why do 2 pixies 1 foot away* from each other have a -9 to hit each others vitals?

They are of equal size. It would be the same as 2 humans shooting from 2 yds away at each other, but that's only a -3.

*1 foot would be the "0" range using the above rule.

Huh. I had never noticed that before- probably because I have never been interested in games where pixies and other little folk are a thing. There are size penalties below 2 yards, but not speed/range bonuses.

Any easy fix is to house rule that one does get range bonuses down to ranges equal to your (the attacker's) size. So a 12" pixie at 1 foot range would get a +5 bonus to hit, but at a range of 8" or less still only gets +5. This would jive with humans getting speed/range bonuses and penalties down to 2 yards, which is their size.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Unwashed Mass

I see now that hit location adds to the SM to figure out your to hit, but why do 2 pixies 1 foot away* from each other have a -9 to hit each others vitals?

They are of equal size. It would be the same as 2 humans shooting from 2 yds away at each other, but that's only a -3.

Well, for the reason both Anthony and I have referred to as a problem, which is that by RAW there are never to hit bonuses for short range, so pixies shooting each other are, relatively speaking, never less than 20 yards apart.

Originally Posted by Unwashed Mass

*1 foot would be the "0" range using the above rule.

Only under the weird rule that you just made up where (as you may not have noticed) your own SM is directly added to your attack roll as well as the opponents SM.

Shooter size should absolutely not be added to the range penalty to hit. That isn't what Anthony suggested, if you look at it. His suggestion is that shooter SM should determine the minimum range penalty/maximum range bonus.

So pixies at 1 foot (which is not analogous to 2 yards, since they're SM -6, not -5) would be able to get a +5 range bonus on their ranged attacks. Adding this to the SM -6 of the target, and the -3 for targeting vitals, and you get -4. Exactly the same as targeting a human's vitals at 3 yards.

Note that something smaller than a pixie takes that shot with exactly the same modifiers as the pixie does. And that something SM -4 or greater is actually in Close Combat with the target at the time of the shot.