[MH] Lycanthropes

[RobKamm]

I'm looking at MH and noticed that none of the lycanthrope forms change the character's SM. Was that intended to be a genre simplification?

[Langy]

Originally Posted by RobKamm

I'm looking at MH and noticed that none of the lycanthrope forms change the character's SM. Was that intended to be a genre simplification?

How, and why, is that a simplification? The main thing I noticed is that the wolf-form is a four-legged beast like an actual wolf, completely unlike most of the werewolves seen in fiction (which should have semi-upright, most likely).

EDIT: Oh, woops, I read that as some of the lycanthrope forms change character SM. Dur.

[PK]

To some degree, yes. More to the point is that, even though it would save a few points, suddenly giving all of your foes +1 or +2 to hit you in combat is a pretty huge drawback. It seemed at odds with "the weretiger is an optimized fighting form" to make it the form easiest to harm in a fight.

Just as important is that the lycanthropes were inspired by a few different movies, including Night Watch. Check out the weretiger in that film and you'll see what I mean -- it's pretty small for a tiger, but amazingly fast and fierce.

[RobKamm]

So, we're not taking advantage of cheaper ST for these guys. Got it.

And I'll track down Night Watch (I'm assuming you mean the Russian movie from 2004, not the Ewan McGregor one from '97) and give it a viewing. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

To some degree, yes. More to the point is that, even though it would save a few points, suddenly giving all of your foes +1 or +2 to hit you in combat is a pretty huge drawback. It seemed at odds with "the weretiger is an optimized fighting form" to make it the form easiest to harm in a fight.

Just as important is that the lycanthropes were inspired by a few different movies, including Night Watch. Check out the weretiger in that film and you'll see what I mean -- it's pretty small for a tiger, but amazingly fast and fierce.

Tiger Cub is one of my favorite Lukyanenko character ^_^ Incidentally I was just working on something today involving a MH shapeshifter where I came to this exact conclusion, but I wasn't sure, nice to know I picked up on your thought patterns on this one.

Having a higher SM doesn't seem worth the points you'd save on ST and HP, even for the Werebear, it also neatly sidesteps the issue of changing in clothing or armor...which would be annoying if your are SM+0 and your other form is SM+1 or more.

Ghostdancer

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by RobKamm

So, we're not taking advantage of cheaper ST for these guys. Got it.

And I'll track down Night Watch and give it a viewing. Thanks for the suggestion.

Also check out the books their based on by Sergei Lukyanenko, they are quite good and even gameable in RPG terms. I *love* the Gloom (at least how it works in the novels, though the movies are good visuals too).

Ghostdancer

[nick_coffin]

I don't understand something about the character point cost for the Lycanthrope racial template.

I haven't worked through all of the different Were-Forms, but the base cost for the Were-Bear is:

ST+10 [100]
DX +1 [20]
HT +2 [20]
Bad Grip 1 [-5]
Cannot Speak [-15]
Claws (Blunt) [3]
DR 5 (Tough Skin) [25]
Fur [1]
Ham-Fisted 2 [-10]
Semi-Upright [-5]
Teeth (Sharp) [1]

...For a total of [135].

To buy this as an alternate form, the cost is 15 + (.9 x (difference between natural form and this one)).

Assuming the 'natural form' is worth 60 points (using the other features of the Lyncanthrope racial template), this would be a total of (15 + (.9 x 75)) = 83 points.

This cost is modified by Reduced Time (+80%) and Uncontrollable during full moon (-5%), so the final cost is 83 x 1.75 = 145 points.

But the cost calculated in the text is 140 points, isn't it? What am I missing?

[PK]

Originally Posted by nick_coffin

I don't understand something about the character point cost for the Lycanthrope racial template.

I haven't worked through all of the different Were-Forms, but the base cost for the Were-Bear is:

ST+10 [100]
DX +1 [20]
HT +2 [20]
Bad Grip 1 [-5]
Cannot Speak [-15]
Claws (Blunt) [3]
DR 5 (Tough Skin) [25]
Fur [1]
Ham-Fisted 2 [-10]
Semi-Upright [-5]
Teeth (Sharp) [1]

...For a total of [135].

Actually, the DR costs 15, so the total is 125, as mentioned in the Were-Forms box.

To buy this as an alternate form, the cost is 15 + (.9 x (difference between natural form and this one)).

Assuming the 'natural form' is worth 60 points (using the other features of the Lyncanthrope racial template), this would be a total of (15 + (.9 x 75)) = 83 points.

No, this template doesn't replace the Lycanthrope template; it stacks with it. Thus, the base cost before modifiers is 15 + (0.9 * 125) or 15 + 113.

This cost is modified by Reduced Time (+80%) and Uncontrollable during full moon (-5%), so the final cost is 83 x 1.75 = 145 points.

No, you only apply modifiers to the 15-point cost of Alternate Form. So the actual cost is (15 * 1.75) + 113, or 27 + 113, or 140 points.

[nick_coffin]

OK, now I understand where I went wrong with the were-bear.

I'm working on the other were-forms, and I still can't get the totals to 125 points. What am I missing there?

For example:

Were-Tiger:
ST+10 [100]
DX+4 [80]
HT+2 [20]
Cannot Speak [-15]
Claws (Sharp) [5]
Discriminatory Smell [15]
DR 4 (Tough Skin) [20 *.6] = [12]
Fur [1]
Night Vision 2 [2]
Quadruped [-35]
Silence 2 [10]
Teeth (Fangs) [2]

This adds up to 197.

Were-eagle:
DX+4 [80]
HT+2 [20]
Cannot speak [-15]
Claws (Sharp) [5]
Enhanced Move 2 [40]
Flight (Winged) [30]
No Fine Manipulators [-30]
Penetrating Voice [1]
Teeth (Sharp beak) [1]
Telescopic Vision 5 [25]

For a total of 157.

[PK]

Originally Posted by nick_coffin

I'm working on the other were-forms, and I still can't get the totals to 125 points. What am I missing there?

You're not applying the -40% discount to ST and DX, for the No Fine Manipulators disad that the other (non-bear) forms have.