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Old 01-12-2021, 02:30 AM   #1
gardien2008
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Default Warp Duplication help

So I'm trying to replicate a power concept with gurps and I'm having trouble coming up with way to do it.

Here's the concept : The character can teleport and in his place is left a time limited clone (5 to 10 second, most likely 5+1d6 sec) that can fight on his own before disappearing in a cloud of white smoke. Each clone come with the same gear the character had before teleporting, but they can't make clone of their own.

So with the system, I came up with a warp linked with duplication where the duplicates have the same signature gear.

The warp I built easily enough, but for the duplication, I have no idea how to go about it.

At maximum, there could be 11 of them at the same time, so do I go duplication 11?

How do I replicate the time limit for the clones and their lack of teleportation powers?

If a Warp linked with duplication is not what is appropriate in this situation, how do I replicate this concept?
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Old 01-12-2021, 04:26 AM   #2
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Warp Duplication help

How about an Ally Group, Summonable (when the main character Warps)? Since the Allies aren't "duplicates", they don't have to be exactly like the main character, so easily can just not themselves have the Ally-based ability. Linked to the use of Warp (so that it doesn't take an extra Maneuver when you're trying to cut and run; also the -10% "can't use the ability separately" version means you can't just call up all those Allies any time you want an extra hand).

The time limit is just Maximum Duration.

11 is a bit of an unfortunate number in this case, as it's just into the 8x cost threshold for a group rather than 6x. If 11 is cosmologically significant, maybe you could convince the GM to bend that rule, or scale it.

Last edited by Anaraxes; 01-12-2021 at 04:30 AM.
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Old 01-12-2021, 05:37 AM   #3
gardien2008
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Default Re: Warp Duplication help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
How about an Ally Group, Summonable (when the main character Warps)? Since the Allies aren't "duplicates", they don't have to be exactly like the main character, so easily can just not themselves have the Ally-based ability. Linked to the use of Warp (so that it doesn't take an extra Maneuver when you're trying to cut and run; also the -10% "can't use the ability separately" version means you can't just call up all those Allies any time you want an extra hand).

The time limit is just Maximum Duration.

11 is a bit of an unfortunate number in this case, as it's just into the 8x cost threshold for a group rather than 6x. If 11 is cosmologically significant, maybe you could convince the GM to bend that rule, or scale it.

tbf I was counting the character in that number, so he would have 10 allies, instead of the original 11 "clones".

I really like this solution. thank you
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Old 01-12-2021, 05:57 AM   #4
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Default Re: Warp Duplication help

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Originally Posted by gardien2008 View Post
The character can teleport and in his place is left a time limited clone (5 to 10 second, most likely 5+1d6 sec)
If you say "1d+4" the resulting interval will be exactly 5-10 seconds.
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Old 01-12-2021, 07:12 AM   #5
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Warp Duplication help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
How about an Ally Group, Summonable (when the main character Warps)? Since the Allies aren't "duplicates", they don't have to be exactly like the main character, so easily can just not themselves have the Ally-based ability. Linked to the use of Warp (so that it doesn't take an extra Maneuver when you're trying to cut and run; also the -10% "can't use the ability separately" version means you can't just call up all those Allies any time you want an extra hand).
I could be mistaken, but I believe you'd want Conjurable (and Minion) or similar so the dupe getting killed isn't a problem (a summonable Ally who gets killed stays dead, unless they use some of their points on some form of Unkillable or similar).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
The time limit is just Maximum Duration.
Maximum Duration also has a required cooldown between uses as I recall, so doesn't quite match here.


For your Oni Lee expy, given the way it works (to have all 10 at once, you'd have to Warp every single turn, and keep this up as long as you wanted all 10 - or rather the possibility of all 10, if going with them each lasting 1d+4 seconds), I'd probably base the price on either Ally Group or Duplication (honestly, the latter seems more appropriate) on around half the maximum. It might not be horrible to give half the discount of an appropriate Maximum Duration, but I'd need to look at it closer (the cooldown on Maximum Duration is a big part of why it's worth as much as it is). Something else that might be worth looking at would be Illusion, with (IIRC) the Stigmata and Independent Enhancements.
EDIT: I'll note letting your expy pull off Oni Lee's grenade trick would be cheating, even if you have the grenade as Consumable Signature Gear. I'd probably require you to buy the grenade as a properly-Limited Innate Attack.
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Old 01-12-2021, 09:24 AM   #6
Gold & Appel Inc
 
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Default Re: Warp Duplication help

Yeah, I tried to build Oni Lee for GURPS a while ago and came up with the same conclusions: He's worth a lot of points for a minor character who doesn't accomplish much.
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Old 01-12-2021, 09:35 AM   #7
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Default Re: Warp Duplication help

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Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc View Post
Yeah, I tried to build Oni Lee for GURPS a while ago and came up with the same conclusions: He's worth a lot of points for a minor character who doesn't accomplish much.
Worm is a setting that's largely tricky to build in a point-buy system, AFAICT, even if you treat the powers as 'something an Always-present Ally does' (which is technically the case). A lot of characters would have point costs that would be very out of proportion with both each other, and their general effectiveness. Trying to build Skitter, for example, requires a fair bit of fudging and declaring 'well, this is effectively what she can do, even if it's not literally what she can do,' due to her extreme multitasking. Oni Lee and Lung fall into that area as well, even if Lung's power is a bit more straightforward (he at least seems to have a maximum level that he can hit while ramping up for long enough, rather than the Incredible Hulk's undefined limit of 'as mad as he can possibly get').
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Old 01-12-2021, 10:03 AM   #8
gardien2008
 
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Default Re: Warp Duplication help

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Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
Worm is a setting that's largely tricky to build in a point-buy system, AFAICT, even if you treat the powers as 'something an Always-present Ally does' (which is technically the case). A lot of characters would have point costs that would be very out of proportion with both each other, and their general effectiveness. Trying to build Skitter, for example, requires a fair bit of fudging and declaring 'well, this is effectively what she can do, even if it's not literally what she can do,' due to her extreme multitasking. Oni Lee and Lung fall into that area as well, even if Lung's power is a bit more straightforward (he at least seems to have a maximum level that he can hit while ramping up for long enough, rather than the Incredible Hulk's undefined limit of 'as mad as he can possibly get').
I see, so since I'm the Dm in this game, how would you go about simulating Oni lee? Do you just Dm fiat the signature gear only restriction + maximum duration cooldown period?

I've been doing okay so far because my players have opted to play a less combat oriented game, so I didnt have to stat most of the NPC's combat abilities, but they're going to hit the hornet's nest and i want to give them a challenge. I don't think lung is that difficult to translate to gurps or bakuda for that matter, but Oni lee is making it harder.

Also, like you said, it feels that since most of worm's power are convoluted with their execution and restriction, it makes the cost higher than it should be and more difficult to build. For example, I'm trying to build glory girl's force field, but making a force field that shuts down after a big hit, or after a continued barage, while still blocking the whole impact is difficult to put down on paper.
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Old 01-12-2021, 10:33 AM   #9
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Warp Duplication help

Fortunately, if it's just an adversary, you don't need to build with Advantages and the like - you can just fiat how it works. Your Oni Lee expy (or, heck, maybe it is Oni Lee) leaves behind an autonomous copy when he 'ports, and it stays for 1d+4 seconds before turning to ash. Boom, done. It's if one of the PC's is going to have the ability - or take an Ally or Enemy that does - that you'd need to more formally build it.

EDIT: As for Glory Girl's forcefield, a possible option might be to give her some amount of DR that protects her just fine, then a big stack of additional DR modified with the Backlash of temporarily losing her powers (GG also loses her strength and flight when her forcefield goes down, IIRC). The end result would be that most attacks just bounce off, but a really big attack would make her forcefield drop (but as long as it didn't exceed total combined DR, she'd be uninjured). This does have some recursion issues, however (the cost of such a Backlash scales with the cost of the traits being lost, using Temporary Disadvantage guidelines, but the cost of a portion of the lost DR is dependent on what the Backlash costs; I'd have to run the numbers to see where it stabilizes).
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Last edited by Varyon; 01-12-2021 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 01-12-2021, 10:42 AM   #10
Gold & Appel Inc
 
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Default Re: Warp Duplication help

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Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
Oni Lee and Lung fall into that area as well, even if Lung's power is a bit more straightforward (he at least seems to have a maximum level that he can hit while ramping up for long enough, rather than the Incredible Hulk's undefined limit of 'as mad as he can possibly get').
Does he, though? For all we know from the story, he could get even bigger and badder if he fought a threat worse than Scion (and love every second of it), there just aren't any as far as we know.
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