How to protect merchant from mind control?

[Keampe]

Originally Posted by Anders

So I'm thinking about running a mercantile campaign in Forgotten Realms. How do I keep the party's wizard/bard from mentally dominating all the merchants they come across?

Some thoughts:

1. Magic Resistance (either natural or via items).

2. Wards of some kind.

3. Laws that make it illegal to influence citizens with mind magic (works in places like Waterdeep and Sembia where there is a strong where there's a strong legal places, maybe not so well in other places).

Forgotten Realms? That's easy.

Any merchant that's worth their salt - wealthy - employs guards. In the FR this will include a mage or other spell caster and guess what their specialty is? No, this doesn't make stealing from them or conning them impossible, but is does make it harder. They will no longer be able to steamroll these merchants. If they still succeed in conning them, this will be found out and the authorities called.

Poorer merchant - well it suck to be poor, but they are likely to be paying protection money to the local Thieves Guild. This, of course, doesn't provide much protection at all, but the TG will be very interested in any reports of someone freelancing on their turf. At best this will result in earnest conversations with large gentlemen about how this shouldn't happen, then all stolen goods (or more) are taken and the culprit thrown out of town. Most likely with multiple bruises. Or a shattered hand.

At worst - especially if they decide to fight - is that the Thieves Guild has lots of connections to the Assassin's Guild. If the TG is feeling charitable they might take a dagger and stick a copy of the AG contract on the offender's door. Maybe.

- Shane

[Kale]

Magical ward that lights up whenever mind college magic is used within its radius. Merchant's guards are trained to pay attention to the ward. Then the the PCs have to be powerful enough to control the merchant AND his guards at the same time (with the at least some of the guards potentially in another location). The way to head that off is to also have the ward report to the local town guards at the same time, basically a magical burglar alarm that detects hostile magical effects and alerts the authorities.

[thrash]

I like to approach these questions from modus tollens: if it's that easy, there must be a reason everyone isn't doing it already. Kromm's legal structures are, of course, valid in civilization governed by the rule of law. By design, however, player characters spend most of their time in the uncivilized portions of a dungeon fantasy setting. What then?

In the spirit of "Least Spells":

Detect Spells (A) Regular
Alerts the user if a spell or magical effect is activated within a 5 yard radius.

Duration: 1 minute.
Cost: 1
Time to Cast: 5 seconds.

Item: (a) Ring or necklace. Always on. It alerts the wearer by vibrating. Energy cost to create: 150. (b) Bell. Always on. It rings whenever an active magical use is detected. Energy cost to create: 60.

The idea here is a spell and associated magic items that aren't particularly useful to adventurers, but very handy for merchants. The bell, in particular, is intended to be created using Quick and Dirty enchantment, at a cost of $60 -- a solid investment for even a small merchant with a permanent booth or shop. It's not very subtle, however, since anyone in the vicinity can tell that it's been set off. At ~$5,000, the ring or necklace is for the merchant who wants to be aware that magic is being used without giving up the advantage of that knowledge. And even a travelling peddler can cast Detect Spells on themselves before negotiating with unsavory and potentially magical persons (like adventurers).

Alternatively, something like an amulet that breaks if a spell or magical effect is cast on the wearer would work. (Replacing it would have to be cheap enough for the cost to be recouped from the type of criminal who is likely to resort to spells.)

[RGTraynor]

Well, sure, Kale: we can always invent a spell that will do that. And we can also posit that there are enough mages/enchanters in our societies to provide well-off merchants such protection 24-7, and that society would be uniquely motivated to do so over all other magically-solvable considerations.

But why would that stop at merchants? Wouldn't the authorities want key officials protected? Wouldn't the military want their officers protected? Heck, wouldn't the criminals want to be protected?

Obviously, this would nerf the whole concept of mind control spells. Seems something of a Rube Goldberg approach to something that can be solved in several less setting-warping ways.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

Obviously, this would nerf the whole concept of mind control spells. Seems something of a Rube Goldberg approach to something that can be solved in several less setting-warping ways.

In general mind control spells are grossly setting-warping in ways that published settings rarely think about, so making them useless is often the least intrusive choice.

[trechriron]

First, this doesn't have to be a "canon" FR. It's YOUR FR.

Second, back in the day, playing D&D 2e with FR, these things were hardly considered. It's one of the things that impressed me with GURPS. The designers think about all these angles and it kind of "woke me up" to thinking of things more realistically. So, you are on the right track IMHO. It does seem odd that with so many markets, no one seems to be worried about magic - or really ANY use of magic if we're being honest.

Personally, I would start with option 3 but enhance it. Markets would have notices about using magic to trick merchants. Punishments would be harsh. Just like The Harpers, there is likely a neutral party of enforcers, funded by the Merchant's Guild that prosecutes offenders with extreme prejudice. This party of enforcers has secret ties to the Thieves Guild - who themselves don't like snooty magic users stealing from their territory. If the Merchant's Guild can't stop you, the Assassins Guild surely will.

Punishments might looks like (by offense);
1. Confinement to the pillory for 24 hours then banishment from the city with a magical mark to warn future merchant's mages of your status.
2. Prison for 6 - 12 months, a physical mark branded into their neck, and confiscation of all worldly goods. (Also, banishment again)
3. Public execution with display of the offender for 30 days on one of the king's roads.

Some foreshadowing would be in order. Show some offenders displayed on posts once in awhile with a sign on them like "mind reader" or "foul sorcerer". Make sure they see the signs when they enter the market. Maybe have a scene where a mage is arrested while a sympathetic mage helps the merchant shake off their befuddlement.

It's still a choice. They might try it AND pull it off! So be it. But at least you portrayed the world with some consistency. In a high-fantasy world, people would be aware and wary of magic use.

(Of course IMHO, just my two cents, and all that stuff...)

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

Obviously, this would nerf the whole concept of mind control spells. Seems something of a Rube Goldberg approach to something that can be solved in several less setting-warping ways.

The thing about mind-control magic is that infinite resources will be thrown into developing detection methods, counter-measures and access restrictions. No one thinks themselves being enslaved is a good thing. The only thing hated and feared more than a necromancer is an enchanter. The necromancer only enslaves you after you've died. The enchanter doesn't need to kill you to enslave you.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by trechriron

Punishments might looks like (by offense);
1. Confinement to the pillory for 24 hours then banishment from the city with a magical mark to warn future merchant's mages of your status.
2. Prison for 6 - 12 months, a physical mark branded into their neck, and confiscation of all worldly goods. (Also, banishment again)
3. Public execution with display of the offender for 30 days on one of the king's roads.

Imprisonment was pretty rare in medieval times, except perhaps for aristocrats. The expense of supporting a prisoner in idleness meant a lot more when standards of living were lower. Quicker punishments such as flogging, or permanent ones such as branding or amputation, were more affordable. Or if mages could be deprived of their magic, and still be functional, they might be enslaved.

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by Anthony

In general mind control spells are grossly setting-warping in ways that published settings rarely think about, so making them useless is often the least intrusive choice.

Far from it. Banning them altogether from your setting is.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

....

Who would make them? Wouldn't the mind-controllers mind-control government officials to make laws against wards?



Same problem as 2. If you can dominate merchants, you can dominate lawmakers.

Realistically, the situation is untenable. If you've got a whole class of people capable of controlling the minds of others, either they do so or they don't want to do so. There is no "can't."
...

Thing is it's a known problem. In a magic rich world were this is a threat there will be magical counter measures employed against it*.

Especially in a magic system that allows for new spells to be developed or deity magic which is basically the deity in question delegating their powers to their followers.

So Ok maybe there is some kind of magical arms race here, but efforts will be made

Now weather they are universally available is completely different thing. As other have already said the more you get into teh wild west areas the less this will be a thing, but well that's true for other more mundane methods of effecting negotiations.

Plus while given the FR setting it's kind of easy to assume there's a mage around every corner, there isn't that many and most day to day interactions are still mundane (and many mage groups are in opposition to each other anyway)



*In FR I really like the idea of a Waukeen magical fraud investigation team (with the equivalent of forensic magic for detecting magical or even non magical fraud), I also think that the local temples of Waukeen will happily hire out their temple facilities as meeting rooms for deals to be made in ensuring no outside magical influence (all good merchants should be seeking Waukeen's blessing before any mercantile endeavour anyway amirite). However I also imagine priests of Mask will be constantly looking for counter - counter measures to all this as well!

The various Lawful** deities with an interest in social structure etc will have similar interest in governments and lawmakers not being influenced by anyone with a mind control spell, and the chaotic "tear it all down" deities' churches will be opposing their efforts


**LN and LE as well as LG, since LE deities don't want their societies messed with 9unelss they doing the messing), even if they are happy to mess with other's