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Old 01-25-2020, 12:33 AM   #21
Plane
 
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Default Re: Alchemy in a no mana world

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Another alternative to mana is sanctity. Sanctity allows divine magic to function and may exist in worlds without mana without issue.
Never looked into that before but B242 indeed spells that out under Clerical Magic... and it's pretty AMAZING.

If the only place you could have 'No Sanctity' is in rival gods' templates then wouldn't that allow you to get rid of it by burning down the temple? Whereas you can't remodel 'No Mana' zones that easily...

Plus the interesting situation where it exists on a case-by-case basis depending on which deity you follow, as opposed to mages where it's like "you're both all-powerful or you're both nothing".

Do you know if they ever made anything like "Sanctity Damper" advantages? Or would "Drain Mana" have a "Drain Sanctity" eequivalent?
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Old 01-25-2020, 01:36 AM   #22
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Default Re: Alchemy in a no mana world

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Never looked into that before but B242 indeed spells that out under Clerical Magic... and it's pretty AMAZING.

If the only place you could have 'No Sanctity' is in rival gods' templates then wouldn't that allow you to get rid of it by burning down the temple? Whereas you can't remodel 'No Mana' zones that easily...

Plus the interesting situation where it exists on a case-by-case basis depending on which deity you follow, as opposed to mages where it's like "you're both all-powerful or you're both nothing".

Do you know if they ever made anything like "Sanctity Damper" advantages? Or would "Drain Mana" have a "Drain Sanctity" eequivalent?
I can't really see how that sort of thing would make sense. What would cause such a thing?
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Old 01-25-2020, 05:05 AM   #23
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Default Re: Alchemy in a no mana world

If Sanctity is a matter of belief than someone could possibly so much of an atheist that divine spells fails in their presence. But that's a bit off-topic.
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Old 01-25-2020, 06:38 AM   #24
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Default Re: Alchemy in a no mana world

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S26 "The astral plane is a low-mana area"
S41: "Magical spirits may require mana constantly to exist"
S44: "At the GM’s option, spirits with Dependency (Mana) can be treated as “magical creatures.”
"The Astral Realm has normal mana, and a magician’s ka can cast all but specifically materially based spells within it, or any of the other planes." - GURPS Cabal pg 49.

So just what mana level the Astral Plane (Realm) varied depending on which reference book you used...oops :-)
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Old 01-25-2020, 07:01 AM   #25
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Default Re: Alchemy in a no mana world

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Do you know if they ever made anything like "Sanctity Damper" advantages? Or would "Drain Mana" have a "Drain Sanctity" eequivalent?
When I wrote the Sanctity rules, I deliberately did not propose Sanctity Dampers or Drains. Sanctity comes from the active manifestation of the power of a god. I didn't think it made sense to say that mortals should have the power to nullify a god.

Of course one god can suppress another god's power in the one god's holy places. But if you follow the idea that Divine abilities are GRANTED by gods, but gods themselves have Cosmic abilities, the ability to suppress another god's power would seem to need to be Cosmic.
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Old 01-25-2020, 07:06 AM   #26
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Default Re: Alchemy in a no mana world

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If Sanctity is a matter of belief than someone could possibly so much of an atheist that divine spells fails in their presence. But that's a bit off-topic.
Sanctity is not a matter of belief.

The Catholic Church distinguishes theologically between sacramentals, such as prayer and blessings, which depend on the faith of the person who performs them, and sacraments, such as baptism, holy communion, or ordination, which do not—God said they would work, and they work. The bread and wine turn into the body and blood of Christ regardless of the mental, moral, or spiritual state of the priest. They are officially, theologically like the folkloric joke that a Saint Christopher medal protects you whether you believe in it or not. Trying to stop this would be like trying to stop a gun from shooting by asserting the belief that it's not loaded, or trying to withstand the bullet by believing in your own invulnerability.
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Old 01-25-2020, 07:09 AM   #27
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Default Re: Alchemy in a no mana world

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Never looked into that before but B242 indeed spells that out under Clerical Magic... and it's pretty AMAZING.

If the only place you could have 'No Sanctity' is in rival gods' templates then wouldn't that allow you to get rid of it by burning down the temple? Whereas you can't remodel 'No Mana' zones that easily...

Plus the interesting situation where it exists on a case-by-case basis depending on which deity you follow, as opposed to mages where it's like "you're both all-powerful or you're both nothing".

Do you know if they ever made anything like "Sanctity Damper" advantages? Or would "Drain Mana" have a "Drain Sanctity" eequivalent?
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I can't really see how that sort of thing would make sense. What would cause such a thing?
GURPS Religion is the reference for stuff like this.

Regarding "Sanctity Damper" and "Drain Sanctity" the closest thing was an Object of Power of an opposing deity as they generated their own Sanctity aura - a minimum of High Sanctity for Minor Objects and Very High Sanctity for Major Objects.

"This (Very High Sanctity area) is a No-Sanctity area for all non-allied deities." (GURPS Religion pg 102)

To use Christianity as an example the Ark of the Covenant would be a Major Object of Power while the Grail and Spear would more likely be Minor Objects of Power.

So entering a temple to Zeus (normally Very High Sanctity) with the Grail (High Sanctity area) in one's possession would act like a Sanctity Damper...and odds are put you on Zeus' 'who I want to freaking die' list.
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Old 01-25-2020, 07:54 AM   #28
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Default Re: Alchemy in a no mana world

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Sanctity is not a matter of belief.
Very true. An Object of Power will being cranking up the Sanctity level of the area regardless of what the person holding it believes.

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
The Catholic Church distinguishes theologically between sacramentals, such as prayer and blessings, which depend on the faith of the person who performs them, and sacraments, such as baptism, holy communion, or ordination, which do not—God said they would work, and they work. The bread and wine turn into the body and blood of Christ regardless of the mental, moral, or spiritual state of the priest. They are officially, theologically like the folkloric joke that a Saint Christopher medal protects you whether you believe in it or not. Trying to stop this would be like trying to stop a gun from shooting by asserting the belief that it's not loaded, or trying to withstand the bullet by believing in your own invulnerability.
This, IMHO, is a horrible example as it gets into the sticky issue of schisming. One thing GURPS Religion does not make clear enough is that no religion is monolithic.

Paul himself talks about Christianity becoming fragmented via his warning about accepting teachings from "another Jesus", "another scripture", and/or "another Spirit".

Things were such a mess by the 2nd century that Against Heresies was written to try and clean it up. Even as the The Council of Nicaea of the 4th century tried to hammer out what would become Catholic Church Orthodoxy the religion was happily schisming itself into Coptic, Ethiopian, Eritrean, Syica, Armenian Apostolic, and Malankara denominations.
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Last edited by maximara; 01-25-2020 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 01-25-2020, 07:57 AM   #29
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Default Re: Alchemy in a no mana world

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Sanctity is not a matter of belief.
I think that's a campaign switch myself.
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Old 01-25-2020, 08:01 AM   #30
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Default Re: Alchemy in a no mana world

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Regarding "Sanctity Damper" and "Drain Sanctity" the closest thing was an Object of Power of an opposing deity as they generated their own Sanctity aura - a minimum of High Sanctity for Minor Objects and Very High Sanctity for Major Objects.

"This (Very High Sanctity area) is a No-Sanctity area for all non-allied deities." (GURPS Religion pg 102)
Does it talk about what would happen if two major objects of opposing religions are brought to bear against each other?

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entering a temple to Zeus (normally Very High Sanctity) with the Grail (High Sanctity area) in one's possession would act like a Sanctity Damper...and odds are put you on Zeus' 'who I want to freaking die' list.
Would he necessarily NOTICE though? He probably has a lot of temples, so sanctity dropping due to fire/earthquake vs an item, is it instintively discernable?
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