Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-26-2020, 10:53 AM   #1
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Very High Mana's FP recouping with funding variations

B235/M6:

a mage who spends FP to cast a spell on his turn gets those FP back at the start of his next turn
I am wondering, does this exclude refunds if paying for spells' energy costs through other means other than one's FP pool?

There are a lot of other ways of fueling energy costs that have built up so I'm not sure how VHM policy applies to their use.

01) spending from Burning HP (B237/M8)
02) spending from Powerstone (M69) or Manastone (M70)
03) spending from Share Energy (M89)
04) spending from Draw Power (M180-1)
05) spending from Energy Reserve (P119/T50)
06) spending from Energy Orb (Dungeon Magic 19 left)
07) spending from Transference Bolt (Dungeon Magic 19 right)
08) spending from Blood Pool (F167/8)
09) spending from Meditative Magic (F161)
10) spending from Point Debt (F162)
11) spending from Corruption (H147)
12) spending from Black Magic (M156)
13) spending from Assisting Spirits (T90)
14) spending from Essence (T51)
15) spending from Paut (T52 left)
16) spending from Cone (T52 right)
17) spending from Static Power Supplies (T53) like ley line power channels
18) spending from Sacrifices (T54-55)
19) spending from Familiars (B38/T50/DF5p20)
20) spending from Vitality Reserve (Pyramid 3/75 pg 20)
Any ideas on yes/no for these?

I'm also not sure what happens (since "Concentrate" allows a "step", or you might be on a moving vehicle) if you cast a spell in VHM but have left the VHM boundary prior to the start of your next turn. Would you need to remain within the boundary for the FP to feed back into you?
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2020, 12:28 PM   #2
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Very High Mana's FP recouping with funding variations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
B235/M6:

a mage who spends FP to cast a spell on his turn gets those FP back at the start of his next turn
I am wondering, does this exclude refunds if paying for spells' energy costs through other means other than one's FP pool?

There are a lot of other ways of fueling energy costs that have built up so I'm not sure how VHM policy applies to their use.

01) spending from Burning HP (B237/M8)
02) spending from Powerstone (M69) or Manastone (M70)
03) spending from Share Energy (M89)
04) spending from Draw Power (M180-1)
05) spending from Energy Reserve (P119/T50)
06) spending from Energy Orb (Dungeon Magic 19 left)
07) spending from Transference Bolt (Dungeon Magic 19 right)
08) spending from Blood Pool (F167/8)
09) spending from Meditative Magic (F161)
10) spending from Point Debt (F162)
12) spending from Black Magic (M156)
13) spending from Assisting Spirits (T90)
14) spending from Essence (T51)
15) spending from Paut (T52 left)
16) spending from Cone (T52 right)17) spending from Static Power Supplies (T53) like ley line power channels
18) spending from Sacrifices (T54-55)
19) spending from Familiars (B38/T50/DF5p20)
20) spending from Vitality Reserve (Pyramid 3/75 pg 20)
Not the mage spending their own FP, so they wouldn't get extra FP just because they cast a spell. The rule is just a way to say "the spell is free", though it's worded to make it very fast recovery, and thus leave you low on FP until the start of turn. (Saying that "all spells cost 0" would have different effects, especially on the size of spell you can cast, as well as that moment of weakness.) Accumulated divine favor (like Mediation on T52) simiilarly isn't personal energy, and you don't get that favor/tolerance back from the god/spirit/whatever just because it's a high mana area.

If items recharge faster (like Powerstones), they'll have (or need) their own rule. Potions like Paut don't recharge. The casters involved in a ritual (Cone, Share Energy) might individually recharge faster, but the director of the ritual doesn't get the full FP cost of the ritual back, personally.

Quote:
11) spending from Corruption (H147)
This one I'd allow (for regular magic use), because the corruption isn't the source of the energy. The mage doesn't recover the Corruption, but they can have the FP back. If you want to cast a whole lot of Corrupting magic quickly in a high-mana area, that comes with its own limiting cost that has nothing to do with FP. (Might be fun to put in a VH mana area for those casters just to tempt them.)
Anaraxes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2020, 12:48 PM   #3
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Very High Mana's FP recouping with funding variations

Nope to most,if not all the above,

01) ER yes its so close to FP, same with Essence
02) Many of theses sources arent magic but converted to magic so No -such as Assisting Spirits, Black Magic, Blood Pool, Corruption, Draw Power, HP, Meditative Magic, Point Debt, Vitality Reserve (like HP)
03) Some are consumable objects like Paut, Sacrifices so just gone. Energy Orb fits into this category also.
04) If from something that benefits from VH in the same way and its also in the area then it gets back its energy, like a Familiar.
05) Powerstones have their own chart for how fast they recover in different mana levels.
06) Ley Lines are creeks or rivers of magic and more likely to create a VH mana area than be affected by one.
07) If the cone itself is in a VH probably yes, but at a certain point you might have too much mana to instantly refilled by the area around it.
08) Transference Bolt is basically Lend Energy as a Missile Spell with some drawbacks. The caster would get back the energy used to cast it if in a VH, but the subject does not.

Its helpful to look at what is going on rather than just the mechanics here.
Some things like ERs are wells of power that can be quickly refilled by pouring more into it, some are more like batteries and fragile so cant be refilled too quickly with breaking them this includes powerstones. Others are used up in casting so not around to be affected by a VH in any case.

If your out of the area it has no effect.
__________________
Looking for group in my area
My GURPS official contributions Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2020, 02:18 PM   #4
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Very High Mana's FP recouping with funding variations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
If items recharge faster (like Powerstones), they'll have (or need) their own rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Powerstones have their own chart for how fast they recover in different mana levels.
Do you think M69's "can only be used by mages" is over-rode by M70's "itemís user may tap its energy" for Dedicated Powerstone? IE could non-mage item-users tap DPs?

The 1/6h rate definitely means that the powerstone won't "regain FP" (it never had FP to begin with, it had energy) spent to fuel magic...

It seems like there might be a way around this (in a sense) for mages with Lend Energy though.

If a mage uses energy from a Powerstone to cast "Lend Energy" to restore his own FP, couldn't he then cast spells in VHM using that FP and then get it back the next second?

That's more time-consuming compared to powering spells directly from the Powerstone, and gives an additional chance for failure, but could be a decent strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Transference Bolt is basically Lend Energy as a Missile Spell with some drawbacks. The caster would get back the energy used to cast it if in a VH, but the subject does not.
What if the subject was in VHM too? He would still be spending FP, even if it wasn't his own. Sort of like how you can spend ER from an ally whose ER has 'affects others'.
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2020, 03:40 PM   #5
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Very High Mana's FP recouping with funding variations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Do you think M69's "can only be used by mages" is over-rode by M70's "itemís user may tap its energy" for Dedicated Powerstone? IE could non-mage item-users tap DPs?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
If a mage uses energy from a Powerstone to cast "Lend Energy" to restore his own FP, couldn't he then cast spells in VHM using that FP and then get it back the next second?


What if the subject was in VHM too? He would still be spending FP, even if it wasn't his own. Sort of like how you can spend ER from an ally whose ER has 'affects others'.
This is a perpetual motion argument.
Its really simple if you focus on the concept beneath the mechanics. Lend energy is not a poll that exists and can be refilled, its a simple transfer of enegry so it would not be affected.
The person lending the energy could cast again if his pool of FP/ER were refilled but the spell itself cannot.
__________________
Looking for group in my area
My GURPS official contributions Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2020, 04:33 PM   #6
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Very High Mana's FP recouping with funding variations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
This is a perpetual motion argument.
Its really simple if you focus on the concept beneath the mechanics.
Lend energy is not a poll that exists and can be refilled, its a simple transfer of enegry so it would not be affected.
The person lending the energy could cast again if his pool of FP/ER were refilled but the spell itself cannot.
You can in theory fuel casting Lend Energy with HP and then use it to restore FP (Thaumatology also alows you to accrue Tally to restore FP) so I'm not sure it's ALWAYS a transfer of energy, it might also involve conversion if you use non-FP sources to cast it.

Mages can't directly do "I want to fill my FP so I'll just suck it out of this Powerstone" as far as I know. They need to cast directly from it. So Lend Energy gives a mechanic where SOME mages (since not all know that spell) might be able to do that transfer, and sometimes bungle it.
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
very high mana

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.