Alchemy in a no mana world

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Plane

Would he necessarily NOTICE though? He probably has a lot of temples, so sanctity dropping due to fire/earthquake vs an item, is it instintively discernable?

Earthquake is the domain of Poseidon, and I think he would notice if his brother wrecked one of his temples.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Plane

Does it talk about what would happen if two major objects of opposing religions are brought to bear against each other?

No. This is one of the things left up to the GM to figure out but the results will not be pleasant for anyone in the area.

Originally Posted by Plane

Would he necessarily NOTICE though? He probably has a lot of temples, so sanctity dropping due to fire/earthquake vs an item, is it instintively discernable?

Remember that "Sanctity is a measure of the deity’s power in a given locale." (GURPS Religion pg 102) So it it is not so much that sanctity dropping due to a fire/earthquake but the presence of another deity's power

I should mention that Sanctity based Alchemy item could come out of Temples to Hermes Trismegistus. They would likely be just below Objects of Power generating a very limited normal Sanctity aura (just enough for the elixir to work)

[AlexanderHowl]

Well, other religions would have other deities, depending on their native alchemical tradition. It could be that every alchemical potion is associated with a specific deity (or every alchemical Path if using an alchemical version of RPM), so alchemical potions would have different sanctity. In any case, sanctity-based alchemy would be effective in no mana worlds.

An interesting idea would be having sanctity-based alchemical RPM (Alchemy being the core skill) and sanctity-based herbal RPM (Herb Lore being the core skill). In the former case, urban areas would be high sanctity and wilderness areas would be low sanctity. In the latter case, wilderness areas would be high sanity and urban areas would be low sanctity.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by maximara

This, IMHO, is a horrible example as it gets into the sticky issue of schisming. One thing GURPS Religion does not make clear enough is that no religion is monolithic.

Though I'm not convinced that fragments its Sanctity in any way. One point I always try to make about schisms is that for the most part they aren't "really" about the doctrines they are centered on, they are political fights over who gets to decide.

We can certainly see that in modern ecumenical movements, where it is quite possible for church leaderships to decide that yeah we killed each other over this stuff before, but it turns out that the "differences" were two ways of saying the same thing, or that we're now sure they are adiphoral and God is happy with either one. OK you can't quite come out and say that exactly (usually anyway) but the weasel worded legalese basically comes down to one of those two.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Plane

Would he necessarily NOTICE though? He probably has a lot of temples, so sanctity dropping due to fire/earthquake vs an item, is it instintively discernable?

Based on a false premise anyway. Merely destroying a temple's would not deconsecrate it. It would have be ritually deconsecrated or majorly defiled. For example if someone were to say, have sex with a priestess of Athena on the altar of her temple that would mean the temple would have to be reconsecrated.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by maximara

"Sanctity is a measure of the deity’s power in a given locale." (GURPS Religion pg 102) So it it is not so much that sanctity dropping due to a fire/earthquake but the presence of another deity's power

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Based on a false premise anyway. Merely destroying a temple's would not deconsecrate it. It would have be ritually deconsecrated or majorly defiled. For example if someone were to say, have sex with a priestess of Athena on the altar of her temple that would mean the temple would have to be reconsecrated.

Sounds like even if another deity didn't interfere that other events might compromise the sanctity.

It feels like if you knocked down a temple and there weren't even ruins left that it should gradually fade. Though maybe that's because worshippers stop coming or gods withdraw power?

I guess part of the problem is I want to think of gods as being statted characters (albeit with cosmic abilities) and doing things like "Affliction: Sanctity" to bless areas.

[Flyndaran]

I guess it really depends on whether your gods are beings that consciously affect the world, or worldly affects that also have some localized identifiable forms.
Is Aphrodite merely a god with powers over love or Love itself given a humanoid form? That kind of thing may matter for these types of questions of sanctity, I think.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Though I'm not convinced that fragments its Sanctity in any way. One point I always try to make about schisms is that for the most part they aren't "really" about the doctrines they are centered on, they are political fights over who gets to decide.

The problem here is this all depends on how the relationship between Deity identity, worship, and Sanctity work.

If you follow Dragon #101's "For King and Country" premise of deities being not only being empowered but shaped by their worshippers to its logical conclusion then schisming becomes a really big deal.

In fact, the first Christian Bible (by Marcion) depicts the deity of the Jews and that of the Christians as two separate deities with the former (Demiurge) being effectively an evil maniac.

Heck, schisming within pagan religions is even worse with what started out as one deity gets fragmented into several. Such as Aphrodite Areik, Urania, and Pandemos for the Greeks. Aphrodite Areik is interesting as she was primarily a Spartan variant who had many traits of Aries and Athena as part of her make up.

[Polydamas]

p. B174 and Low Tech p. 11 ("Distillation") envision Alchemy/TL as a realistic skill which just comes with benefits in some settings. Low Tech page 10 lists penalties for using Chemistry/TL4 or less to perform some tasks.

I wonder how to handle the practical chemistry of many trades such as dyers, glassmakers, smelters, cooks, pharmacists, potters and glazers, painters, etc. at TL 0-4. People in these trades know a list of recipes, and some rough-and-ready empirical tests, but they don't have a good theory to guide experiments if they face something none of their recipes cover. A big part of the scientific revolution was idea exchange between working artisans and learned experts.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I guess it really depends on whether your gods are beings that consciously affect the world, or worldly affects that also have some localized identifiable forms.
Is Aphrodite merely a god with powers over love or Love itself given a humanoid form? That kind of thing may matter for these types of questions of sanctity, I think.

I don't think it does. You see we have real world consecration and the times when reconsecration is called for to work from and it doesn't make a difference whether the god is a person or a force imagined as a person. In real life religions have rituals to consecrate, and deconsecrate, as well as blasphemous acts so egregious that afterward if they're going to continue to use the holy space they're going to need a purification ritual.