Need help in preparing campaign

[Dutch_Wolf]

FIrst post here anyway:

Inspired by Wolves of Time (by William Horwood, The Sight, Fell, (and also Firebringer by David Clement-Davies) and works like Watership Down (by Richard Adams) I am planning to run a (short?) campaign featuring the PCs as a pack of wolves.

Short description of my idea:
The world floats somewhere in the void protected by the gods/spirits and the chosen from the nothingness that is the void. Legends tell that long ago humans almost succeeded in letting the void destroy the world and where banished from the world for that transgression. As the players get know the are to become the next pack of chosen wolves, portals open to a strange world and humans return to the world...

Currently my problem is that for the feeling I want in the game a combination of Path magic and realmbased magic seems to be great, but path magic does a lot with charms which per default do not work without opposable thumbs also I need some advice in creating new paths and rituals (preferably travel magic).

Also some general campaign advice is also welcome

[hari]

I can't say right now without anything in front of me. But I think you could do path magic just fine without thumbs. What are the three components of it again? Time, place and ritual trappings? Something like that, right? So, let's think of some examples. The members of a pack take turns to watch over a special outcropping of rock that overlooks a large area. The rock was mysteriously carved into by some previous inhabitants and counts as a special place to preform rituals. The wolves take turns watching over it and doing something at some kind of regularish interval, like say, they howl each time a cloud passes the sun or the moon, or something like that. At night they all gather to howl together and chase one another's tails (or whatever). There we have an element of time in it. And while they do their nightly routine, they bring with them bones defeated from dangerous beasts or passed down the generations or given as gifts by worshipful humans or monkeys or something. So we have a place, an amount of time it takes to do the ritual, and some ritual trappings. It's just an idea.

On the other hand, it seems like you want them to be a little less stuck in one place. All three of those time, place and object requirements are hard on you if you want to be very mobile. I think the argument could be made that the real purpose of path magic is to slow down mages and leave them tied to a place. So it really might not be the right fit for you. I might suggest to instead simply group spells from Magic into groups as you like and come up with your own alternate prerequisite chain of some kind.

It's a good idea! This is your first post? Don't feel bad if people don't respond too much. This is generally a rather nice forum. But I still don't know what to say and often feel like I put my foot in my mouth. Or... yeah... anyways. I might not be the best one to say welcome but, well, welcome.

[Dutch_Wolf]

Originally Posted by hari

I can't say right now without anything in front of me. But I think you could do path magic just fine without thumbs. What are the three components of it again? Time, place and ritual trappings? Something like that, right? So, let's think of some examples. The members of a pack take turns to watch over a special outcropping of rock that overlooks a large area. The rock was mysteriously carved into by some previous inhabitants and counts as a special place to preform rituals. The wolves take turns watching over it and doing something at some kind of regularish interval, like say, they howl each time a cloud passes the sun or the moon, or something like that. At night they all gather to howl together and chase one another's tails (or whatever). There we have an element of time in it. And while they do their nightly routine, they bring with them bones defeated from dangerous beasts or passed down the generations or given as gifts by worshipful humans or monkeys or something. So we have a place, an amount of time it takes to do the ritual, and some ritual trappings. It's just an idea.

Well doing the rituals isn really the problem the problem is that a lot of example rituals have as result an object (called a charm in thaumatology), I can ofcourse rule that it is something intangible something that is done to an individual (e.g. infused into someones aura)

On the other hand, it seems like you want them to be a little less stuck in one place. All three of those time, place and object requirements are hard on you if you want to be very mobile. I think the argument could be made that the real purpose of path magic is to slow down mages and leave them tied to a place. So it really might not be the right fit for you. I might suggest to instead simply group spells from Magic into groups as you like and come up with your own alternate prerequisite chain of some kind.

Well the PCs will do a lot of traveling but that is because they are special (they will also have access to realm based syntactic magic), but the normal magic the wolves will have is more subtle.

For example a mother digging a den while intoning a charm/spell of protection
to protect the den of harm (digging being part of the ritual of course), a pack howling to the moon for a good hunt, a wolf asking the stars in a howl for the quikest way to the meeting place of the pack or a pack doing a ritual to claim a teritorium.

Most (if not all) of those things will be higly ritualistic and won't be things that can be done during combat maybe there are some rituals that help to prepare for combats but those are probably not used much. (Maybe in some ritual for claiming a part of some other packs teritorium)

It's a good idea! This is your first post? Don't feel bad if people don't respond too much. This is generally a rather nice forum. But I still don't know what to say and often feel like I put my foot in my mouth. Or... yeah... anyways. I might not be the best one to say welcome but, well, welcome.

Thanks! Your reply has at least helped me formulate my ideas better.

[aesir23]

Yes, I think that you can ignore the Charm in most cases. The charm is mostly there to be used up; infusing an area of a being works just as well. The only thing necessary for play balance is the time and preparation required.

You may want to give your wolves Adept (Ignores Ritual Elements). This way their rituals take place in a sacred space or a place where the wolves have made some preparations (even running around a circle for a while and howling to scare away bad spirits), and it takes the requisite amount of time to cast the spell, but they don't need candles or representative dolls or any of the the like.

I'd also consider making a Book of the Wolf. It seems that you would only have a few Rituals, but that they would come from several paths.

[Dutch_Wolf]

Originally Posted by aesir23

Yes, I think that you can ignore the Charm in most cases. The charm is mostly there to be used up; infusing an area of a being works just as well. The only thing necessary for play balance is the time and preparation required.

Thoughts so as well thanks for confirming that tought.

You may want to give your wolves Adept (Ignores Ritual Elements). This way their rituals take place in a sacred space or a place where the wolves have made some preparations (even running around a circle for a while and howling to scare away bad spirits), and it takes the requisite amount of time to cast the spell, but they don't need candles or representative dolls or any of the the like.

You are right and then it might be interesting if the returning humans do need ritual elements.

I'd also consider making a Book of the Wolf. It seems that you would only have a few Rituals, but that they would come from several paths.

More food for thought, but this might indeed be the way to go. And then of course other animals will have access/know other rituals that can be quite interesting.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Dutch_Wolf

And then of course other animals will have access/know other rituals that can be quite interesting.

Yes, I like this a lot. After all, why would a wolf know the same spells as a raven?

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by hari

I think the argument could be made that the real purpose of path magic is to slow down mages and leave them tied to a place. So it really might not be the right fit for you.

I strongly disagree. The purpose of Path Magic is to create powerful and subtle effects more like the magical beliefs of real people. Even if you give a character with Path magic Adept 3 so that they can cast anywhere, ignore ritual components and cast any spell in minutes, you end up with a spell caster that feels completely different from a standard GURPS spellcaster.

I think it's definitely what you want, you'll just have to use Adept to get around the thumbs

[EDIT] I think this campaign sounds awesome, btw. Please post whatever you decide on in this thread, especially as it relates to Path/Book magic. I could even see using a wolf shaman in a campaign with ordinary humans!

[Darekun]

Originally Posted by Dutch_Wolf

FIrst post here anyway:

Welcome :J

Originally Posted by Dutch_Wolf

Currently my problem is that for the feeling I want in the game a combination of Path magic and realmbased magic seems to be great, but path magic does a lot with charms which per default do not work without opposable thumbs

Well, one trick which can be handy when dealing with other species is to replace our major elements with theirs.

In the case of client-oriented charms, their main role seems to be letting others know something interesting is happening; for humans, this is a visual element, but for wolves perhaps it should be a scent element. So in place of a client-oriented charm, the magic leaves an obvious scent on the client, which vanishes suddenly when a charm would break.

The other role of charms is to not have a client in mind when you do the ritual; this role can be removed(making the rituals client-oriented), or it can be emphasized, with the inconvenience being a major limitation of such rituals(they produce an item which the user must roll in). In either case, perhaps give a +2 to the ritual's default for the inconvenience.

Since material and symbolic components are also difficult without thumbs, the wolves might think of Path/Book Adept: Material/Symbolic the way default GURPS thinks of Magery 0 - simply a requirement to work the magic. Path/Book Adept: Ritual Space would also be good for a traveling group.

Originally Posted by Dutch_Wolf

also I need some advice in creating new paths and rituals (preferably travel magic).

I've created a few rituals of my own; one handy trick is to import them from the "Hawthorne"(default) magic system by analogy with ritual magic. These are from a setting I was working on called Vajra Of The Stars(sort of Record Of Lodoss War meets an Ancient Astronauts take on the Mahabharata), and is inspired by archeological Celtic thought. The Paths were Beasts, Contracts, Cunning, Dreams, Flame(AKA Gadgets but they didn't know that), Form, Health, Knowledge, The Land, Luck, The Sky, Spirit, and The Water. Here's the few travel-oriented ones I've already done:

Aquatic Slide
Effect Shaping: Path Of The Water-4; 10 minutes.

This ritual empowers the target to move easily through water, at a move equal to their Basic Speed(round up).

Fly Like An Eagle
Effect Shaping: Path Of The Sky-8; 10 minutes.

This ritual causes translucent wings to sprout from the target's body, allowing them to fly at a move equal to twice their Basic Speed(round up). They have a stall speed of half their Basic Speed(round up), however.

Stoneswim
Effect Shaping: Path Of The Land-6*; 10 minutes.
* or Path Of The Land-4 to only pass through soft soil.

This ritual empowers the target to pass through land of all kinds, including worked sod and stone, at a move equal to half their Basic Speed(round up).

Originally Posted by Dutch_Wolf

Also some general campaign advice is also welcome

Something similar but more extreme is GURPS Bunnies & Burrows, which provides a lot of stuff about handling campaigns from animal perspectives.

One tip is to keep their sensory differences in mind. Not just in describing information from their senses, but the angle is likely to be different. Humans' primary sense is very fast, very transient, and easily blocked. Wolves will take longer to gather scent impressions, but those will naturally provide a history, and of course hearing and scent both go around corners. So a wolf's perception of a place isn't so much "what's out in the open right now", as "what is and has been around here somewhere".

[Dutch_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Darekun

Welcome :J

Thanks.

Well, one trick which can be handy when dealing with other species is to replace our major elements with theirs.

In the case of client-oriented charms, their main role seems to be letting others know something interesting is happening; for humans, this is a visual element, but for wolves perhaps it should be a scent element. So in place of a client-oriented charm, the magic leaves an obvious scent on the client, which vanishes suddenly when a charm would break.

I really like this idea, and will probably use it.

The other role of charms is to not have a client in mind when you do the ritual; this role can be removed(making the rituals client-oriented), or it can be emphasized, with the inconvenience being a major limitation of such rituals(they produce an item which the user must roll in). In either case, perhaps give a +2 to the ritual's default for the inconvenience.

Interesting I think for the campaign I will go for option 1, but might try option 2 in a oneshot to see how that works.

Since material and symbolic components are also difficult without thumbs, the wolves might think of Path/Book Adept: Material/Symbolic the way default GURPS thinks of Magery 0 - simply a requirement to work the magic. Path/Book Adept: Ritual Space would also be good for a traveling group.

I think this indeed the way to go and probably will allow the players to buy Path/Book adept to level 2 (both Material and Ritual space). Will probably also use magery as a 'Magic sensitive' trait (magery not required to cast but without it you can't sense magic) with higher levels of magery adding to rituals (as described in Thaumatology p.123)

I've created a few rituals of my own; one handy trick is to import them from the "Hawthorne"(default) magic system by analogy with ritual magic. These are from a setting I was working on called Vajra Of The Stars(sort of Record Of Lodoss War meets an Ancient Astronauts take on the Mahabharata), and is inspired by archeological Celtic thought. The Paths were Beasts, Contracts, Cunning, Dreams, Flame(AKA Gadgets but they didn't know that), Form, Health, Knowledge, The Land, Luck, The Sky, Spirit, and The Water. Here's the few travel-oriented ones I've already done:

Aquatic Slide
Effect Shaping: Path Of The Water-4; 10 minutes.

This ritual empowers the target to move easily through water, at a move equal to their Basic Speed(round up).

Fly Like An Eagle
Effect Shaping: Path Of The Sky-8; 10 minutes.

This ritual causes translucent wings to sprout from the target's body, allowing them to fly at a move equal to twice their Basic Speed(round up). They have a stall speed of half their Basic Speed(round up), however.

Stoneswim
Effect Shaping: Path Of The Land-6*; 10 minutes.
* or Path Of The Land-4 to only pass through soft soil.

This ritual empowers the target to pass through land of all kinds, including worked sod and stone, at a move equal to half their Basic Speed(round up).

Interesting, might use some of these in the paths for other animals.

Something similar but more extreme is GURPS Bunnies & Burrows, which provides a lot of stuff about handling campaigns from animal perspectives.

Have acces to 'Bunnies and Burrows' and am planning to use some of the suggestions from there (mostly available skill and some advantage sugestions)

One tip is to keep their sensory differences in mind. Not just in describing information from their senses, but the angle is likely to be different. Humans' primary sense is very fast, very transient, and easily blocked. Wolves will take longer to gather scent impressions, but those will naturally provide a history, and of course hearing and scent both go around corners. So a wolf's perception of a place isn't so much "what's out in the open right now", as "what is and has been around here somewhere".

This is indeed something to keep in mind, anyway thanks for the sugestions.