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Old 07-27-2011, 04:25 AM   #1
jeff_wilson
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Default Gaming Isms

I'd like to explore more kinds of political philosophy and economic systems, or at least their implications in the realm of settings for diverting encounters or even campaign settings, but I don't feel that I can do that with my current GM resources. Is there a particular game system or setting framework that especially lends itself to gaming -isms? Something like the RPG equivalent of the CIVILIZATION series? I think I may have seen something like this on a play-by-post basis way back in the BBS days, but on my own I can't recall any identifying details.

Some example premises might be that the players indulge their power fantasies not by being badass warriors and magicians or even kings and archmages but by being prefects and lictors, or Imperial Auditors, or cyberneticists hired to break an infomorph labor strike at an automated outpost, but in greater than average scope where the players have agency to make policy at some level and can influence policy changes at the highest levels.
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: Gaming Isms

I think you are going to have to be clear on what you mean by 'isms'.

To get a feel of real world stuff just a brief read about wiki and that will lead you to other things.

18th UK was strange on law and order. You could riot for food, infact you could riot legally... until the magistrate read the Riot Act and you had an hour to disperse. Preventing the magristrate was an offence, attacking the rioters before the hour was up was an offence, the magistrate leaving the scene before the hour was up negated the reading of the act. Soldiers could be tried for murder and magistrates too, whereas rioters could be tried for anything. The army was reluctant to act without the magistrate present otherwise they could be tried, officers included.

It was fairly strange back then.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: Gaming Isms

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I think you are going to have to be clear on what you mean by 'isms'.
Socialism, libertarianism, progressivism, paternalism, colonialism, jingoism, cannibalism, ... and the some of the -archys, -cracys, and -ologies as well.

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To get a feel of real world stuff just a brief read about wiki and that will lead you to other things.
I'm familiar with the vairous notions, what I'm groping for is something to help me run a cultural or sociological narrative rather than a paramilitary or romantic one. Some games' features approach this, like TORG's social axiom, but I'd like a more involved treatment than a simple, linear quantity.
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: Gaming Isms

I like this idea. I'm playing a lot of Civ right now and really want to get Civ 5, but that's neither here nor there.

I've had the thought in the past to use the map maker in Civ as a map for RPGs, never actually did it though, I suppose SimCity could be used similarly. I think the easiest way to do what you're talking about would be to simply play the video game, have the in videogame decisions made either by the RPG's GM or by automation in the videogame, and then let the RPG PCs make in videogame decisions as is fitting.
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Old 07-28-2011, 03:33 AM   #5
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Default Re: Gaming Isms

The problem is that you need to determine in advance what the 'ism' does before you start so that you can adjust the setting appropriately and if you're not careful it can become anvilicious.

It can also lead you into all sorts of arguments when your model produces results that don't fit with your players ideas of what should happen and ends up looking like an author fillibuster.
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:02 AM   #6
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The problem is that you need to determine in advance what the 'ism' does before you start so that you can adjust the setting appropriately and if you're not careful it can become anvilicious.

It can also lead you into all sorts of arguments when your model produces results that don't fit with your players ideas of what should happen and ends up looking like an author fillibuster.
Can't go wrong with letting it all end in tears.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:07 AM   #7
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Default Re: Gaming Isms

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Originally Posted by The Colonel View Post
The problem is that you need to determine in advance what the 'ism' does before you start so that you can adjust the setting appropriately and if you're not careful it can become anvilicious.

It can also lead you into all sorts of arguments when your model produces results that don't fit with your players ideas of what should happen and ends up looking like an author fillibuster.
I'm thinking there may be some some way to accommodate conflicting expectations; perhaps there could be some sort of "handwave points" similar to drama points.

"He asks, 'What will motivate the Xists to mine more Zeite than the Yotians let them keep?'"
"I spend a handwave point."
"Bob is satisfied with your answer."
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: Gaming Isms

I like the idea, but I'm very wary of trying it in any depth, simply because beating up strawmen doesn't provide me much entertainment, and I fear it would bore the players.
(Or, if they were true believers, honk them off without adding anything to the story.)

If you don't agree with the base assumptions of a philosophy, it'll show through. The urge to poke at them is almost overwhelming and ever-present.

And this is especially problematic since so many -isms don't have a clear definition beyond "something I find objectionable".
You can explore actual racism. But the word as it's been used in politics for the past several decades? Forget it.
You can explore actual historical fascism. But that will have little connection to the various people derided as fascists in modern day. (Or even immediately after WWII.)
Jingoism? (Oh G*d. Don't get me started.)
Capitalism? The name itself is a strawman, hung on it by Marx.
Communism? The Universities are full of people who will passionately claim that communism has never actually been tried.
Keynesianism? (I about lost my frigging mind over politicians doing things Keynes specifically argued against while invoking his name.)
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Old 07-29-2011, 01:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: Gaming Isms

It reminds me of NationStates.com:
It's fun making decisions, but at some point the player and the GM will interpret things differently.
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Old 07-29-2011, 01:43 AM   #10
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Default Re: Gaming Isms

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
It reminds me of NationStates.com:
It's fun making decisions, but at some point the player and the GM will interpret things differently.
That was part of what the handwave points are for, to stipulate where they disagree and get past it constructively without having to resolve the mismatched expectations right then. More radical -isms would require more handwaves, but some skill in arguing a given issue is already covered by a previous handwave would reduce the number necessary.


I'm getting some thin recollection that there's been an indie RPG that covers this sort of give-and-take; maybe one of those GM-less or rotating GM systems?
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