Weapons for other sizes...

Shin Majin · 04-21-2010, 11:01 AM

How does a being's Size Modifier influence the specs of its weapons?

Take, for example, a Size Modifier +2 giant with a ST of 26 (for purposes of this example, we'll assume this is normal for a giant of this size.)

According to the basic set, a being with an ST that high would be able to use most, if not all, two-handed melee weapons with only one hand...

But what about a maul designed for giants to use two-handed? It would obviously require a higher ST to wield properly...but would that change its damage? Its reach?

Bruno · 04-21-2010, 11:16 AM

GURPS Fantasy has scaling rules for Giant weapons, and IIRC offers two options, one based on hewing closer to physics, and one based on peoples expectations (built by disney cartoons and fantasy art).

Dungeon Fantasy 3 has it's own scaling rules, but I wouldn't recommend them for general use as they're based more on enforcing "genre stereotypes" than on any sort of realism, and are closely related to the ST choices on the racial templates for DF3. If you ARE running a DF game and using the DF races, they're great.

Rev. P. Kitty has good rules for giant weapons on his website that I can recommend, too. Plus, free :D

And of course, one of the GURPS Lowtech Companion will have the "generic" scaling rules for big and small races in them... once they finally get released.

The short version, is that yes, bigger/heavier weapons will definitely do more damage.

EDIT: P. Kitty's approach is based on the minimum Strength required to wield the weapon and the size of the weapon is one of the results, whereas the Fantasy and Dungeon Fantasy approaches are focused on the size of the character, where raising minimum ST required is one of the results.

Shin Majin · 04-21-2010, 11:29 AM

Many thanks...I assume this applies in reverse for smaller humanoids, and the like?

Dalzig · 04-21-2010, 11:43 AM

There's not really much need for it to apply for smaller humanoids. They are already dealing damage proportional to their ST and SM. If you want them to wield a "small shortsword," then you can just give them a small knife and be done with it.

Pmandrekar · 04-21-2010, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno

And of course, one of the GURPS Lowtech Companion will have the "generic" scaling rules for big and small races in them... once they finally get released.

Yet another thread answered with GURPS Low-Tech. I *cannot* wait for this to be available!!

-P.

Turhan's Bey Company · 04-21-2010, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pmandrekar

Yet another thread answered with GURPS Low-Tech. I *cannot* wait for this to be available!!

I've got the fully edited drafts of Low Tech and the Companions (Worst. Band name. Ever.) on my hard drive, and I still can't wait for it to be available.

Bruno · 04-21-2010, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalzig

There's not really much need for it to apply for smaller humanoids. They are already dealing damage proportional to their ST and SM. If you want them to wield a "small shortsword," then you can just give them a small knife and be done with it.

Well not really - the small knife has an excessively large handle and crosspiece for the hands a 2' tall fae critter, which means there's a lot of wasted extra weight for someone who's ST 4 or ST 3, and probably that 2' tall fae won't be able to get a good grip on it no matter how strong he is and even if he's using two hands.

And yes, the concept definitely applies in reverse - there's a mechanical problem in GURPS though, in that once you get below a certain size the "roll damage for Strength, then add or subtract based on weapon" model rapidly turns into "roll 1d-5 because your Strength is low, and then subtract a whole bunch because your weapon is tiny" and basically you're falling below the resolution of the GURPS system to support. Two 4" pixies can run each other through with their 2" long broadswords, but GURPS can't show that without getting into lots of house rules for pixies with a quarter of a hitpoint each and weapons doing tenths of a hitpoint damage, and similar tiny things.

As long as you don't need to go down that far, though, it works fine. Just watch out for that bottom end.

demonsbane · 04-21-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno

GURPS Fantasy has scaling rules for Giant weapons, and IIRC offers two options, one based on hewing closer to physics, and one based on peoples expectations (built by disney cartoons and fantasy art).

Are you speaking about "Behind the Curtain: How Strong Is a Giant?" (GURPS Fantasy, p. 51)? To my knowledge that isn't about weapons but only about the raw strength of massive creatures (I would like to be wrong, though).

I never found any scaling rules for giant weapons in GURPS Fantasy . . . so I keep waiting for 4e GURPS Low-Tech.

Besides the mention you're making of Dungeon Fantasy, the closer thing I can think currently is "Big Weapons" in GURPS Supers, p. 120.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

I've got the fully edited drafts of Low Tech and the Companions (Worst. Band name. Ever.) on my hard drive, and I still can't wait for it to be available.

Well, at least we're unofficially informed it is advancing towards its goal by having reached the layout process. It's a painful wait, nevertheless, because the book(s) are so much needed.

Buzzardo · 04-21-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

Low Tech and the Companions (Worst. Band name. Ever.)

Just call them the Luddites :)

vierasmarius · 04-21-2010, 03:52 PM

Going back to the OP's mention of a high-ST character wielding a normally 2H weapon in one hand... how would that interact with the limitation on maximum effective ST? As I read it, max ST = 3xmin ST, whether that's ST, ST† or ST‡. That would mean that a ST40 giant could wield a naginata (ST 9†) in two hands at effective ST27, or in one hand at full ST (one-handed use doubles min ST). This seems to be the opposite of what one would expect.

Hmm. Now that I look at the Basic Set, it doesn't say that how it's wielded actually changes min ST, only that if you have double min ST you can use it one-handed without penalty. Though that still means that a naginata (ST 9†) has a lower max ST than a theoretical big-a** sword (ST 18) despite requiring effectively the same strength to use. Anyone have thoughts on this? Is there some distinguishing feature of two-handed weapons beyond just bulk and weight?

04-21-2010, 11:01 AM	#1
Shin Majin Join Date: Mar 2010	Weapons for other sizes... How does a being's Size Modifier influence the specs of its weapons? Take, for example, a Size Modifier +2 giant with a ST of 26 (for purposes of this example, we'll assume this is normal for a giant of this size.) According to the basic set, a being with an ST that high would be able to use most, if not all, two-handed melee weapons with only one hand... But what about a maul designed for giants to use two-handed? It would obviously require a higher ST to wield properly...but would that change its damage? Its reach?

04-21-2010, 11:16 AM	#2
Bruno Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada	Re: Weapons for other sizes... GURPS Fantasy has scaling rules for Giant weapons, and IIRC offers two options, one based on hewing closer to physics, and one based on peoples expectations (built by disney cartoons and fantasy art). Dungeon Fantasy 3 has it's own scaling rules, but I wouldn't recommend them for general use as they're based more on enforcing "genre stereotypes" than on any sort of realism, and are closely related to the ST choices on the racial templates for DF3. If you ARE running a DF game and using the DF races, they're great. Rev. P. Kitty has good rules for giant weapons on his website that I can recommend, too. Plus, free :D And of course, one of the GURPS Lowtech Companion will have the "generic" scaling rules for big and small races in them... once they finally get released. The short version, is that yes, bigger/heavier weapons will definitely do more damage. EDIT: P. Kitty's approach is based on the minimum Strength required to wield the weapon and the size of the weapon is one of the results, whereas the Fantasy and Dungeon Fantasy approaches are focused on the size of the character, where raising minimum ST required is one of the results. __________________ All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table A Wiki for my F2F Group A neglected GURPS blog

04-21-2010, 11:29 AM	#3
Shin Majin Join Date: Mar 2010	Re: Weapons for other sizes... Many thanks...I assume this applies in reverse for smaller humanoids, and the like?

04-21-2010, 11:43 AM	#4
Dalzig Join Date: Apr 2010	Re: Weapons for other sizes... There's not really much need for it to apply for smaller humanoids. They are already dealing damage proportional to their ST and SM. If you want them to wield a "small shortsword," then you can just give them a small knife and be done with it.

04-21-2010, 03:52 PM	#10
vierasmarius Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oregon	Re: Weapons for other sizes... Going back to the OP's mention of a high-ST character wielding a normally 2H weapon in one hand... how would that interact with the limitation on maximum effective ST? As I read it, max ST = 3xmin ST, whether that's ST, ST† or ST‡. That would mean that a ST40 giant could wield a naginata (ST 9†) in two hands at effective ST27, or in one hand at full ST (one-handed use doubles min ST). This seems to be the opposite of what one would expect. Hmm. Now that I look at the Basic Set, it doesn't say that how it's wielded actually changes min ST, only that if you have double min ST you can use it one-handed without penalty. Though that still means that a naginata (ST 9†) has a lower max ST than a theoretical big-a** sword (ST 18) despite requiring effectively the same strength to use. Anyone have thoughts on this? Is there some distinguishing feature of two-handed weapons beyond just bulk and weight?