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Old 12-11-2022, 10:47 AM   #21
whswhs
 
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Default Re: experimenting with Villains and Vigilantes

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Originally Posted by ravenfish View Post
Arguably, many classic superheroes don't actually have a very coherent power set. Flight, mighty strength, and heat rays would not seem at all related if we hadn't had the better part of a century to get used to Superman.
True, but that wasn't his original power set.

He started out with super strength, super speed, super jumping, and skin that could turn small arms fire—a little short of the classic Flying Brick design (or FISS). Flying got added early on, and all his other powers grew. He also gained super-senses, including telescopic vision, microscopic vision, super-hearing, and X-ray vision. By the 1950s, he was using his X-ray vision to heat things up. It was later than that that the effect got redefined as heat vision. So in effect a power stunt got turned into a new power. His super-breath may have started out as a power stunt with his strength in the same way.

In short, the Superman we now know is not an original design but a character who has gained a lot of experience and bought new powers.

When I wrote up Superman using V&V, I gave him heightened endurance, heightened speed, invulnerability, and three copies of heightened strength, counterbalanced by vulnerability (a bit of a cheat, as he didn't actually get kryptonite till nearly a decade later). That gave him carrying capacity of 17 tons and move of 125 mph, which modestly exceeded what was shown in the first story in Action Comics.
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Old 12-27-2022, 06:57 PM   #22
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Default Re: experimenting with Villains and Vigilantes

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When I wrote up Superman using V&V, I gave him heightened endurance, heightened speed, invulnerability, and three copies of heightened strength, counterbalanced by vulnerability (a bit of a cheat, as he didn't actually get kryptonite till nearly a decade later). That gave him carrying capacity of 17 tons and move of 125 mph, which modestly exceeded what was shown in the first story in Action Comics.
I once wrote up Supes in Champions as a brainwashed bad guy in a big plot involving Eurostar, Dr Destroyer. In place of Overconfidence, he had "Knows he's Superman."
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Old 12-27-2022, 09:06 PM   #23
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I once wrote up Supes in Champions as a brainwashed bad guy in a big plot involving Eurostar, Dr Destroyer. In place of Overconfidence, he had "Knows he's Superman."
Given that the game is deliberately written so you can't build Superman, that Overconfidence: Knows He's Superman must have been worth a lot of points...
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Old 12-27-2022, 09:31 PM   #24
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Given that the game is deliberately written so you can't build Superman, that Overconfidence: Knows He's Superman must have been worth a lot of points...
In what way can't you build Superman?
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Old 12-28-2022, 11:00 AM   #25
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Given that the game is deliberately written so you can't build Superman, that Overconfidence: Knows He's Superman must have been worth a lot of points...
Champions? It's most certainly not deliberately designed so you can't build Superman. Some of his powers aren't very easy to build, but that's not by design.
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Old 12-28-2022, 12:27 PM   #26
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In what way can't you build Superman?
Put it this way - you can't build Superman without giving him a truly ludicrous point bonus. It's not possible to take enough Disadvantages to buy up his levels of flight, superstrength, invulnerability, heat blasts from his eyes, cold blasts from his breath, superspeed, X-ray vision, occasional time travel, and other ancillary powers when starting from the standard base of 250 points.

The developers of the game, in fact, mentioned this exact situation in the intro to the 3rd edition rulebook - most comics characters can't be reproduced exactly without a ridiculous bonus, which was a deliberate choice on their part.
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Old 12-28-2022, 12:44 PM   #27
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Put it this way - you can't build Superman without giving him a truly ludicrous point bonus.
You can reproduce Superman as of Action Comics #1 on 250 points, no problem. Modern Superman isn't a starting character, but why should he be?
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Old 12-30-2022, 12:32 AM   #28
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Default Re: experimenting with Villains and Vigilantes

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Given that the game is deliberately written so you can't build Superman, that Overconfidence: Knows He's Superman must have been worth a lot of points...
Actually, you can, quite easily; damage reduction 75% with a restriction clause (only when not near kryptonite; only when under the light of a yellow star) as a roughly -½ limitation on it.
Then add either leaping or flight, with a very large NCM.
Wind attack (freezing breath)
Vulnerability to Kryptonite
Lots of strength, most with the limitation (except near kryptonite -¼)...
A high rPD and rED, also with the -¼ noy near kryptonite

So 75% RDRP & RDRE 120, Not near Kryptonite -¼, only under a yellow star -¼ so 120 *1/1.5 = 80
add 30 rPD and 30rED 90, Not near Kryptonite -¼, only under a yellow star -¼ so 90 × 1/1.5 = 60
+50 Str, Not near Kryptonite -¼, only under a yellow star -¼, 50 × 1/1.5 = 34
flight about 20", x128 NCM 40+35, Not near Kryptonite -¼, only under a yellow star -¼, 75×1/1.5 = 50

that's in reach of a starting PC (224 real cost of powers) of a 150 + up to 150 in disads.

Note that there was a mention somewhere of 100% DR at 80 base and RDR 120 base per damage category (physical, engergy, mental)

Last edited by ak_aramis; 12-30-2022 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 12-31-2022, 08:27 PM   #29
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Wouldn't "only under the light of a yellow star" mean that he didn't have powers at night? (Or does the version you're talking about not have powers at night?)
If anywhere on Earth counts as "under the light of a yellow star", then -¼ seems like a big discount for that (I'm not sure how Villains and Vigilantes' rules work).
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Old 01-01-2023, 11:50 AM   #30
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When your games are set on Earth, or indeed anywhere sunward of Jupiter, "under a yellow star" doesn't count - rules specify that a restriction that doesn't apply under regular game conditions doesn't count (same reason you can't get free points for a super by taking "unable to breathe water", because unless your game takes place underwater, that never comes into play).
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