DnD 3e Hill Giant conversion to GURPS 4e

[demonsbane]

Of course I'm talking about G: Fantasy, nor G: Banestorm :)
For trying to make clearer my point I wrote G: Fantasy 4e.

Originally Posted by Bruno

And Demonsbane, Fantasy 4e (EDIT) doesn't have any giants in it. Giants are actually a little tricky...
My giants could be 50 feet tall and built on ridiculous-fantasy-physics, while yours could be 12 feet tall and built strictly on the square-cube law, biological scaling rules, and informed by human cases of giganticism. Someone elses giants could simply be humans with giganticism, or be god-children, or spriggan, or noncorporeal.
I understand the loooooong-overdue Bestiary will be tackling giant *anythings* - bugs, animals, people...

But Bruno, I think G: Fantasy 4e does have some giants in it. If you can, take a look at page 56 of that book and there is a version of Tiamat, a ST 350, 200' long (serpentine or dragon-like form, I think), SM +9 gigantic creature. Or in page 50, the Rukh, another ST 100, SM+6, 50' wingspan gigantic creature.

On the next page (p. 51) we have the tricky giants issue treated in the section "How strong is a giant?" addressing the theme, if I'm remembering well, for handling anything, from 10' height-standing giants to 60' height-standing giants, passing through 150' long serpents.

I thought the section's purpose was to be useful not matter our perhaps different and personal interpretation of our lovely giants. I'm wrong?

PS: Nevertheless, I'm eagerly awaiting some news about Bestiary.

Cheers,
Demonsbane

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by demonsbane

On the next page (p. 51) we have the tricky giants issue treated in the section "How strong is a giant?" addressing the theme, if I'm remembering well, for handling anything, from 10' height-standing giants to 60' height-standing giants, passing through 150' long serpents.

I'll have to check what that said, since I don't have Fantasy accessible at the moment, but to the degree that it gave a formula, by definition that formula is not useful for translating monsters from other game systems, because the correct answer to 'how strong is that giant' is 'that giant is as strong as that giant is strong'. If the giant can pick up a mountain, it's apparently strong enough to pick up a mountain.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by Collective_Restraint

Thanks for the compliments Demonsbane. And no, Fantasy 4e doesn't have guidelines on weapon sizes.

Thanks you for your Giant.
Please if you make design enhancements or modifications to it, please post the new versions. I'm waiting for more such things because although my rules set is GURPS, my visual imagination always was D&Dysh :)

---
A GM slowly learning G: 4e.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by Anthony

to the degree that it gave a formula, by definition that formula is not useful for translating monsters from other game systems, because the correct answer to 'how strong is that giant' is 'that giant is as strong as that giant is strong'. If the giant can pick up a mountain, it's apparently strong enough to pick up a mountain.

Of course, Anthony, that formula isn't intended for converting creatures from other game systems. Mostly is for devising your own gigantic creatures. So, you are right in that.

But you can get the D&D Monster Manual and pick from there the data relative to the Hill Giant's non-rpg-system specific height and weight, and with that keys you can try to calculate approximately the Hill Giant's GURPS Strenght using G: Fantasy 4e guidelines.

Nevertheless, regardless the use you can do from that guidelines, the section isn't specifically intended for conversions of creatures from diferents systems.

Cheers,
Demonsbane

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by demonsbane

But you can get the D&D Monster Manual and pick from there the data relative to the Hill Giant's non-rpg-system specific height and weight, and with that keys you can try to calculate approximately the Hill Giant's GURPS Strenght using G: Fantasy 4e guidelines.

To be honest, I recommend never using the G:Fantasy 4e guidelines, as they make the nonsensical assumption that giants obey the square/cube law. Go with sqrt(weight) * 0.8-1.0 (which puts a 150 lb human at ST 10-12).

[Collective_Restraint]

Originally Posted by Shumway

Minor stuff:
* Are giants literate?

Lol, I was thinking about the same thing while converting. Unfortunately, it only says that Giant can also speak common at Int 10. Another question could also be, is Giant a written dialect ? To simplify I just took for granted that they are literate.

Originally Posted by Shumway

* Consider adding Enhanced Move.

I did consider it since it has 40ft of move. I think I'll add a yard of Move.

Originally Posted by Shumway

* Scaling weapons is tricky, and the source of a lot of debate. It's even trickier when the base weapon doesn't even exist in GURPS. That said, I think the damage you picked seems reasonable or even a little low.

I don't know if it's that low. Two-handed Mauls are weapons compared to a greatclub that's probably made of a crude piece of a tree with no metal parts.

Originally Posted by Shumway

* Two levels of Night Vision is pretty minor. You might consider increasing that by a level or two.

You got me there ;) I was using that advantage to "even" out the template to a nice 175pts.

Originally Posted by Shumway

* DR 2 is also pretty minor for a magical being, when elephants get DR 4.

Yes, elephants do get DR 4 but they also weight 12,000lbs instead of 1,100lbs and have a SM of +3. The Hill Giant is pretty similar to a human (which has DR 0) except that it is taller (10 1/2') and heavier (1100lbs). A Cave Bear weights 1400lbs and has only DR 2 with all that fur. I think DR 2 for a 10 1/2' Giant is reasonable.

Thanks for your comments, I'll update my template accordingly.

[Collective_Restraint]

Originally Posted by Temrek

In DND a character can lift up to twice their max load off the ground. A large bipedal with a strength of 25 has a max load of 1600 lbs. This means a hill giant can lift up to 3200 lbs.
Going with the GURPS thingy that you can lift up to 15 times your basic lift, but its tiring. 3200/15 becomes 213.333. A hill giant has a basic lift in the area of 213.333. To find the actual strength score we should multiply 213.333 with 5 getting 1066.663. The ST is the square root of 1066.663. The Hillgiants ST 32.66. Round however you want.

I know, but I find a ST of 32 for an average 10 1/2' Giant is way bigger than an average ST or 10 for a 5'10'' human.

Originally Posted by Anthony

That's probably not how I'd convert ST. A Str 10 character can carry 100 lb as heavy, so we can probably just set ST to sqrt(heavy load), which for a ST 25 Large (x2 lift) creature is 1600 lb, corresponding to a load ST of 40.
I have some doubts about whether that's a reasonable translation, though. Hill giants have always seemed unreasonably strong for creatures that are only about 10' tall.

I was using the same formula in the past :) but found out a lot of times that keeping the same ST score would give very similar results. Also, to me it doesn't make sense the DnD lifting multiplier. That means for damage the Hill Giant would have a ST of 28 (sqrt or 800lbs) with a lifting ST of 40 !!! Also being able to lift 3,200lbs that means a Hill Giant could almost carry 3 other Giants on their backs. It is a physical fact that the bigger the creature is, the less it can lift compared to it's own weight (like an ant compared to a human). I think though that a ST of 28 might be reasonable. This way, he could carry 2352lbs which is more than respectable. I'll update the template, thanks for the comments guys !

[Collective_Restraint]

You wanted it, you have it : the updated Hill Giant template. Changes made are in italics.
Hill Giant (205pts)

Attributes
ST 28 (-20% SM 2) [144]; DX 9 [-20]; IQ 8 [-40]; HT 14 [40].
HP 28 [0]; Will 10 [10]; Per 10 [10]; FP 14 [0].
Basic Speed 5.75 [0]; Basic Move 6 [5]; Block 0; Dodge 8; Parry 9
SM : +2 (10 1/2 feet tall)
Languages : Giant (Native) [0]

Advantages
Damage Resistance 2 (Tough Skin -40%) [6]
Extended Lifespan 1 [2]
Night Vision 3 [3]

Disavantages
Social Stigma (Monster) [-15]

Skills
Brawling DX+3 (12) [8], Climbing DX+3 (12) [12], Jumping DX+3 (12) [8], Two-Handed Axe/Mace DX+4 (13) [16], Throwing DX+4 (13) [16]

Weapons
Huge Greatclub (Same as Maul) dmg : 6d+1
50 lbs rocks dmg: 3d-1; Acc:0; Range:30; Rof:1; Shots: T(1)
(using the throwing rules from G: Campaigns P.355)

Armor
Leather Armor : DR 2 protects Torso and Groin
Hide Boots : DR 2 protects feet

Am I GURPS approved ?

[pnewman]

Originally Posted by Shumway

Looks okay.
Minor stuff:
* Are giants literate?

A Hill Giants favored class is Barbarian. Barbarians are illiterate. Therefore I say that most Hill Giants are illiterate.

[Exxar]

From my experience, directly taking a monster's STR from D&D works the best. I don't think there is a point in calculating a giant's ST according to how much he can lift. The most important thing you need to know about a giant as a GM is how hard will he smash your players, and taking his STR score from D&D is enough for that. If he can lift more than in D&D, well that's a nice added bonus and maybe even more realistic, because GURPS is more realistic than D&D.

Regarding strange weapons of all shapes and sizes, try GLAIVE if you're into number crunching.