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Old 08-11-2020, 12:26 AM   #81
Say, it isn't that bad!
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Default Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Given the low rate of radiation damage from GCR (1 rad/week), you could have Rapid Healing (Radiation Only, -60%) [2] as possibly a TL9 eugenic genetic modification (humans could be engineered to cause cell death to afflicted cells, allow nearby cells to replace them, and it would not require species modification). In the above case, the character would heal 10 rads per day of rest and would be the perfect mod for a space child.
True; although I have closed the discussion in favour of the plausibility of electromagnetic and electrostatic shielding, it is definitely still open on the practicality of electromagnetic or electrostatic shielding versus other options; including just adding more mass.

Ok, so as per the section on Genetic Engineering in Biotech, starting on pg 11, I'd call this an Average procedure, with two minor defects: Susceptible (Disease -1) [-4], and Dependency (cleanser (effective weekly dose when body is purging radiation)) (mitigator (no dependency when not exposed to non-human-normal quantities of radiation -60%)) [-4], due to the body occasionally either having unusual quantities of dead cells in it, or in the process of purging unusual quantities of dead cells.

The base price is $7,000, plus $1,000 for the [2] advantage. With the quirks, I'm discounting the procedure to a flat $4,000.

Overall, this would be a viable "spacer mod" that I can see reasons for someone to take, and someone not to take, and that does not replace large quantities of mass for radiation protection.

Edit: I see "outright replacing large quantities of mass through genetic engineering to deal with radiation" as a TL10 thing. The above mitigates, but does not replace, and has definite downsides.

Last edited by Say, it isn't that bad!; 08-11-2020 at 12:31 AM.
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Old 08-11-2020, 01:16 AM   #82
Say, it isn't that bad!
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Default Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system

I present the Small Step variant A, and variant B, habitable space-stations. The variant A provides Earth-like radiation protection with three electromagnetic shielding sections, while the variant B provides premium radiation protection with armour and high-mass sections. With good luck and consistent sales, the variant A could be paid off in 158 days, and the variant B could be paid off in 124 days (note: maintenance and resupply costs of stations, as well as other on-going costs, not included). Full write-ups, including flavour-text, to come once the dust has been filtered out.

Please comment, critique, and review. :)

Option A:

TL 9, Station (habitat), SM+15 unstreamlined hull, 700 yards.

Code:
Spacecraft Table
TL  Spacecraft                  dST/HP  Hnd/SR  HT  Move    Lwt.    Load    SM  Occ         dDR           Range   Cost
9   Small Step var. A Habitat   1,000   -3/5    15  --      3Mt     Lots    +15 <=40,000    100/100/50    --      $453B
Code:
Front Hull      System ($195B)
[1]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 200, hardened) ($6B)
[2]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 200, hardened) ($6B)
[3]             Fusion reactor (provides 2 power points) ($30B)
[4]             Cargo Hold (150kt)
[5]             Electromagnetic Shield Generator (800 PF, hardened) ($TBD)
[6]             Fabricator (finished goods; $150M/hour or $3.6B/day; 300 workspaces) ($150B)
[core]          Habitat (<=20k cabins, 300 workspaces) ($3B)
Code:
Central Hull    System ($66B)
[1]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 200, hardened) ($6B)
[2]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 200, hardened) ($6B)
[6]             Fusion reactor (provides 2 power points) ($30B)
[4]             Tertiary battery (30 turrets, 16cm very rapid-fire guns, 120,000 shots) ($15B)
[5]             Electromagnetic Shield Generator (800 PF, hardened) ($TBD)
[6]             Control Room (60 control stations, 300 workspaces, Complexity 9 computer network, comm/sensory Level 13) ($6B)
[core]          Habitat (<=20k cabins, 300 workspaces) ($3B)
[CODE]
Rear Hull System ($192B)
Code:
[1]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 200, hardened) ($6B)
[2]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 200, hardened) ($6B)
[3]             Cargo Hold (150kt)
[4]             Fabricator (raw materials; 15,000 lbs/hour or 180 tons/day; 300 workspaces) ($150B)
[5]             Electromagnetic Shield Generator (800 PF, hardened) ($TBD)
[6]             Fusion reactor (provides 2 power points) ($30B)
With an initial cost of $453 billion credits, or $11.325 million per resident, Small Step habitats were funded by large corporations and governments, and while Solar Law prohibited slavery, inhabitants often found that they were de facto indentured servants, as the debt could only rarely be left behind with the station.

Option B:

TL 9, Station (habitat), SM+15 unstreamlined hull, 700 yards.

Code:
Spacecraft Table
TL  Spacecraft                  dST/HP  Hnd/SR  HT  Move    Lwt.    Load    SM  Occ         dDR           Range   Cost
9   Small Step var. B Habitat   1,000   -3/5    15  --      3Mt     Lots    +15 <=40,000    100/100/50    --      $711B
Front Hull System ($321B)
Code:
[1]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 200, hardened) ($6B)
[2]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 200, hardened) ($6B)
[3]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 200, hardened) ($6B)
[4]             Cargo Hold (150kt)
[5]             Fabricator (finished goods; $150M/hour or $3.6B/day; 300 workspaces) ($150B)
[6]             Fabricator (finished goods; $150M/hour or $3.6B/day; 300 workspaces) ($150B)
[core]          Habitat (<=20k cabins, 300 workspaces) ($3B)
Code:
Central Hull    System ($72B)
[1]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 200, hardened) ($6B)
[2]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 200, hardened) ($6B)
[6]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 200, hardened) ($6B)
[4]             Tertiary battery (30 turrets, 16cm very rapid-fire guns, 120,000 shots) ($15B)
[5]             Fusion reactor (provides 2 power points) ($30B)
[6]             Control Room (60 control stations, 300 workspaces, Complexity 9 computer network, comm/sensory Level 13) ($6B)
[core]          Habitat (<=20k cabins, 300 workspaces) ($3B)
Code:
Rear Hull       System ($318B)
[1]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 200, hardened) ($6B)
[2]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 200, hardened) ($6B)
[3]             Fusion reactor (provides 2 power points) ($30B)
[4]             Cargo Hold (150kt)
[5]             Fabricator (raw materials; 15,000 lbs/hour or 180 tons/day; 300 workspaces) ($150B)
[6]             Fabricator (raw materials; 15,000 lbs/hour or 180 tons/day; 300 workspaces) ($150B)
With an initial cost of $711 billion credits, or $17.775 million per resident, Small Step habitats were funded by large corporations and governments, and while Solar Law prohibited slavery, inhabitants often found that they were de facto indentured servants, as the debt could only rarely be left behind with the station.

The differences I see between Option A and Option B:

Option A pros:
  • Cheaper.
  • Complete radiation protection; effectively PF 80, minimum, vs cosmic rays and charged particles; and no less than 1,200 PF versus everything else.

Option B pros:
  • 1 fewer fusion reactor (fuel is cheaper over time).
  • Twice as many fabricators means that paying it off is approximately x1.27 faster.
  • Still PF 60 vs cosmic rays in the habitats; no less than PF 1,200 everywhere else, and PF 1,800 in the middle and front hulls.

Overall, I think I see a use-case for both.

Note: While "Radiation DR" is not something I'm willing to invent for this thread, "hardened PF" is not as much of a reach, and represents the effects of electromagnetic and electrostatic shielding as described to me well enough.
Note2: The listed "Fabricators" are more accurately multiple semi-modular factory-complexes. Unfortunately, neither Spaceships 1 nor Spaceships 5 seem to list modules for factories proper; so I improvised. :) For "semi-modular", read "the equipment used to separate one type of ore from rock, can often be used to separate another type of ore from rock" and "finished goods are often a matter of a computer chip and/or other electronics, possibly some physical mechanism, and a casing." That is, a facility that can separate iron from ore, can separate copper from ore; and a facility that makes toasters, can be re-tooled to make blenders. And so on. This is nowhere near the simple change-over of a TL11 modular facility, though. Required changes include things like extracting all the loose iron dust from the factory, or retooling certain machines, and switching programs on almost all of them.

Last edited by Say, it isn't that bad!; 08-11-2020 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 08-11-2020, 01:57 AM   #83
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system

Both of them are a little expensive. You could build a SM+18 colony for around the same price if you did the following:

1 Cargo Hold (N/A)
1 Fuel Tank ($30B)
3 Steel Armor ($60B
3 Habitat ($300B)
3 Hanger Bay ($30B)
9 Open Space ($18B)
Spin Gravity ($10B)

Total: $448B

Assuming that 50% of the cabins are used for habitation, the station is capable of supporting 900,000 people, for a cost of around $500,000 per person.
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Old 08-11-2020, 02:07 AM   #84
Say, it isn't that bad!
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Default Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Both of them are a little expensive. You could build a SM+18 colony for around the same price if you did the following:

1 Cargo Hold (N/A)
1 Fuel Tank ($30B)
3 Steel Armor ($60B
3 Habitat ($300B)
3 Hanger Bay ($30B)
9 Open Space ($18B)
Spin Gravity ($10B)

Total: $448B

Assuming that 50% of the cabins are used for habitation, the station is capable of supporting 900,000 people, for a cost of around $500,000 per person.
The question I have is, without the fabricators/factories, how do they make money? I don't really see tourism, refuelling, or science producing enough revenue.
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Old 08-11-2020, 02:36 AM   #85
Say, it isn't that bad!
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Default Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system

I get that you can make money by sending out mining ships, but selling raw materials has its own downsides.

That being said, that is a definitely a viable strategy and station, and you have room to expand. However, you're probably going to have to add the cost of the mining ships to your stations' debt.

I see this as more of a very long-term strategy, and stations that started like this, could be major hubs in TL10.

Could also be the start of some of the more sedentary tribes...

Edit: Also, I see I'm a bit scatterbrained tonight...

Last edited by Say, it isn't that bad!; 08-11-2020 at 02:40 AM.
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Old 08-11-2020, 09:11 AM   #86
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad! View Post
The question I have is, without the fabricators/factories, how do they make money? I don't really see tourism, refuelling, or science producing enough revenue.
With the extra six open spaces, they can grow and export high valued crops to other space colonies. At TL9, many crops are possible for production in space, from the exotic (opium and saffron) to the mundane (hemp and maize). With the cost of tossing things up the gravity well from Earth being $25/lb, even maize becomes profitable in space. With 9 million tons of hanger bay capacity, 5 million tons of cargo capacity, and 5 million tons of fuel capacity, they can also offer transshipment, refueling, and maintenance services to spaceships, serving as a support hub for thousands of ships.

By adding 10,000 labs (+$10B) and 20,000 fabricator minifacs (+$10B), it could become a scientific and production hub, though this does increase the final cost to $468B. It could produce $10M/hr of products, which would translate to $87.66 B/year of products per year (more than enough to support its population and for export). With a final cost of $468B, the production capacity alone would represent a good fraction of its GDP.
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Old 08-11-2020, 09:18 AM   #87
Say, it isn't that bad!
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Default Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
With the extra six open spaces, they can grow and export high valued crops to other space colonies. At TL9, many crops are possible for production in space, from the exotic (opium and saffron) to the mundane (hemp and maize). With the cost of tossing things up the gravity well from Earth being $25/lb, even maize becomes profitable in space. With 9 million tons of hanger bay capacity, 5 million tons of cargo capacity, and 5 million tons of fuel capacity, they can also offer transshipment, refueling, and maintenance services to spaceships, serving as a support hub for thousands of ships.

By adding 10,000 labs (+$10B) and 20,000 fabricator minifacs (+$10B), it could become a scientific and production hub, though this does increase the final cost to $468B. It could produce $10M/hr of products, which would translate to $87.66 B/year of products per year (more than enough to support its population and for export). With a final cost of $468B, the production capacity alone would represent a good fraction of its GDP.
All good points.

I think we have the "Giant Leap" habitat station. ;)
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Old 08-11-2020, 09:45 AM   #88
Say, it isn't that bad!
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Default Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system

So, it seems viable at this point to consider what sort of stations might exist. The following (sub)-categories have been covered; a station may (very likely will) cover multiple (sub)-categories:

Note: Listed (sub)-categories are relevant to TL9; other (sub)-categories may exist at higher tech levels, and some (sub)-categories may be rendered redundant.
  • Factory
    • Finished goods production.
    • Raw materials refining.
  • Farming
    • Agriculture.
    • Animals (high-end and expensive; artificially-grown meat tissue will likely mean that more people are against it).
    • Bacterial culture (including algae farms, and artificially-grown meat tissue).
  • Habitat.
    • Settlement (suitable for long-term, large-scale habitation).
    • One or more (very likely more) of the available options listed under Habitats
  • Military (I only really see three possibilities here).
    • Command and Control (regional coordination centre).
    • Defence (carrier).
    • Defence (missiles).
  • Resupply
    • Maintenance.
    • Refuelling.
    • Shore leave and entertainment.
  • Science
    • Development ("applied" science; science with a definite end-goal).
    • Research ("pure" science; science without a definite end-goal)
  • Shipyard.
    • Construction.
    • Repair.
  • Trading.
    • Investment (local businesses, ships, etc).
    • Speculation (buy a shipment now that you think will have more value later).
    • Stock market trading (likely local-area stock markets only).
    • Transshipment (holding shipments for pickup later).

Other (sub)-categories likely exist.

A station could then be summarized by one to three of its primary purposes. For the two "Small Step" stations I posted, they would seem to primarily be Factory (finished goods and raw materials) and Habitat (settlement) stations. The Giant Leap station would seem to be a Farming, Resupply, and Trading station, with a secondary in Habitat (settlement) and Factory.

Last edited by Say, it isn't that bad!; 08-11-2020 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 08-11-2020, 11:01 AM   #89
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system

Considering that TL8+ factories are capable of producing biological materials (if so designed), a TL9 factory could produce its hourly capacity in flesh through cultured meat (I would say one pound per $1 of capacity [GURPS$ rather than 2020$]). In the station that I suggested above, diverting 10,000 minifacs to meat production would produce 5 million lbs of meat per hour, far more than the facility could produce through raising animals (milk, ivory, leather, etc. production could substitute for meat production).
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Old 08-11-2020, 11:04 AM   #90
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Given the low rate of radiation damage from GCR (1 rad/week), you could have Rapid Healing (Radiation Only, -60%) [2] as possibly a TL9 eugenic genetic modification (humans could be engineered to cause cell death to afflicted cells, allow nearby cells to replace them, and it would not require species modification). In the above case, the character would heal 10 rads per day of rest and would be the perfect mod for a space child.
I would be worried that one of the ways in which this was not as good as the TL10 Regneration (Radiation Only) was that the TL9 version did not clear the permanent dose the way the TL 10 version does.

If it didn't you'd still be gaining 5 rads/year without heavy shielding and Antirad drugs. Without clearing the permanent dose you're always gaing some rads and they'll add up to a lethal effect eventurally.
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