04-29-2022, 03:19 AM | #71 |
Join Date: Apr 2022
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
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04-29-2022, 03:37 AM | #72 | |
Join Date: Apr 2022
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
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Consider this: You are under a divine curse and have to kill someone with your two handed longsword today or you flat out die. To your luck, another two handed swordsman with a deathwish challenges you at noon. You begin the fight, it's fierce, you dance around the battlefield and during a particularily heated moment of battle the other guy suddenly gets backed up against a wall and you step forward, suddenly you're almost fully pressed against him and he gives up. How do you swing now? Unless you're going to grab your sword in a sort of blade grip to garrote the guy. Youd have to step back for normal long blade fighting or otherwise you CANNAE SWING. You're not retreating in that moment. You're spacing yourself so you can use the weapon properly. That's what the guys in the sparring video are doing. They're moving around so they can use their weapon. That's what boxers are doing when they move back and forth, yes it's movement pressure too, but they're also moving so they can attack. If a boxer moves into the other boxer none of them can box anymore ;-; If a long sword fighter moves into a long sword fighter, they'd better grab daggers at that point. THAT is the movement you see during those fights ;-; the normal standard fighting. It's not a retreat, it's not even an extended dogdge, just enough so you can stay effective and not get hit, no extra distance cause you'd have to re-tread that if the other guy isn't falling for it. Y'all are just lucky that the rules say it's 'one hex' to do that fancy retreating dodge. If a magical force pulled your fighter away 100 yards every time you do that EXTRA SAFE maneuver you'd be thinking otherwise. |
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04-29-2022, 03:42 AM | #73 |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
Have you ever actually played GURPS?
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Farmer Mortal Wombat "But if the while I think on thee, dear friend All losses are restored and sorrows end." |
04-29-2022, 04:06 AM | #74 |
Join Date: Apr 2022
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
Yes. But okay. Fine.
The taste test. We are swordfighting, I do a vertical overhead swipe at you. You decide to dodge and take a step back. Versus We are swordfighting, I do a vertical overhead swipe at you. You decide to dodge and take a step back. Which of these is the retreating dodge and which is the normal dodge? You're in an open field, btw. And in hex terms, you're in the center with room to spare. |
04-29-2022, 04:46 AM | #75 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
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Nope, you're nebulously somewhere in the rough area denoted by the hex, unless using a houserule that accounts for where in the hex a character is and has effects based on that.
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04-29-2022, 04:56 AM | #76 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
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In GURPS, the maneuvers and options you choose before rolling dice are a very important part of your character’s effectiveness. If your character’s skill is very high but you content yourself with attacking and defending (normal attack maneuver), considering that the rest is just a mere description, while the GM uses good tactics against you, you will have a huge chance to lose the fight. A mere Goblin with Shortsword 10 (1d cut/1d-1 imp) can be very dangerous if he can attack your character behind with an all-out telegraphic strong impaling blow. He will have 90.7% chance of succeeding, your character will have no chance of defending against him, and he will inflict 9 points of damage on average: (1d-1 + 2) x 2. So, to play Mike Tyson, you don’t only have to choose a huge boxing skill, you also have to know GURPS combat rules well enough to use dodge, retreat and dodge, parry, committed attack, defensive attack, deceptive attack, etc., if you want to win the fight. Otherwise, your Mike Tyson character will surely lose a lot of times ... And won’t anymore deserve his name. Unless the GM content himself to use the same sempiternal normal attack maneuver too. It can be done, of course ... As it is written in the rules, “Some people like quick, fast-moving games, where the referee makes lots of decisions to keep things moving.” (Basic Set, Campaigns, page 5). And GURPS allows it as well as it allows more detail (“Others want ultimate detail, with rules for every contingency.”). So, it is just a matter of choice, and your point (all that is just a description of ordinary dodges and attacks) is perfectly valid. But as soon as you decided to use those detailed combat options, then, yes, saying that Mike Tyson sometimes dodges without stepping back while he sometimes does it, and that that difference of footwork can perfectly be simulated with dodge + retreat vs dodge without retreat also makes sense. Last edited by Gollum; 04-29-2022 at 05:12 AM. |
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04-29-2022, 05:03 AM | #77 | |
Join Date: Apr 2022
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
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If taking a single step to dodge an incoming attack is a normal dodge (unless you let the weapon phase through you) or If taking a single step to dodge an incoming attack is a retreating and warrants a hex move (which without a mat doesn't even need to be a thing). Then yes we will be arguing forever, well, not really forever since I'm admitting defeat :P |
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04-29-2022, 05:05 AM | #78 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
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Farmer Mortal Wombat "But if the while I think on thee, dear friend All losses are restored and sorrows end." |
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04-29-2022, 05:05 AM | #79 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
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This is a game. Either you use the rules to win (to keep your character alive and accomplish the mission) or you don’t. Fighters in reality make all what they can to use what is more effective. They don’t try to dodge and then stepping back while stepping back for dodging is far much easier. If you don’t believe me, just try this other taste test with a friend (and a weapon protected with foam). Your friend does a vertical overhead swipe at you. You try to dodge without stepping at all. You try to dodge while stepping back. What will be easier? Last edited by Gollum; 04-29-2022 at 05:09 AM. |
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04-29-2022, 05:06 AM | #80 |
Join Date: Apr 2022
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
How does one dodge a vertical attack then? mitosis?
Anyway, not getting baited any further. Edit: One more thing though: If a regular dodge isn't stepping at all, especially not backwards. Then I suppose regular fighting in GURPS is not cinematic at all, but clockwork figures rockem sockem roboting one another, doing at most a little body sway. Losing completely to D&D in choreography where it's assumed that the fighters are doing all sorts of cool stuff in their squares. Last edited by Lovewyrm; 04-29-2022 at 05:15 AM. |
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