Takedown Rifles (1990s)

[fula farbrorn]

Sorry for double posting, but the M1A1 Carbine with folding stock and a well fitted scope would not even need to be taken down to fit inside of 25 inches.

with https://www.eabco.net/Accelerator-Ty...00_p_13645.htm you could also load whats equivalent of Sabot ammo, giving it a fairly nice chance to reach out.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by fula farbrorn

What about the AR 180 ? folding stock, can be taken apart quickly and fires a 5.56 round, it fits in a package thats very small especially if you are okay with a 16 inch barrel

That's a good point.

In fact, it might be even more desirable with an illegal short barrel, especially if that barrel had a 1:7 twist rate. The 1:12 twist rate of the ArmaLite 18/180 was adequate for short-range fire with 55 grain bullets, but is incompatible with any kind of long-range accuracy with heavier grain bullets.

Sure, you could exchange the 18.25" factory barrel for a 16" barrel in a better twist rate and remain legal, but the 21" OAL of the carbine with 10.1" barrel and folded stock is tempting. That means you wouldn't even have to carry it disassembled, as that only reduces the length of the upper to 18.3".

An alternative would be a 16" match barrel in 1:7 or 1:8 and mounting a Leupold Compact 3-9x33mm scope, carrying it separated in upper and lower, with the longest part being 24.57". That could be an accurate weapon out to 600 yards, easily.

[fula farbrorn]

I think a 16 inch barrel and using heavy Hunting ammo would both serve to make it seem less conspicious and let you reach out to around the 450 meter distance fairly accurately.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by fula farbrorn

Sorry for double posting, but the M1A1 Carbine with folding stock and a well fitted scope would not even need to be taken down to fit inside of 25 inches.

with https://www.eabco.net/Accelerator-Ty...00_p_13645.htm you could also load whats equivalent of Sabot ammo, giving it a fairly nice chance to reach out.

The people doing this have access to a few thousand M1 carbines of WWII vintage, so the folding stocks would be the limiting factor. Granted, those sucked a bit, but for compactness, sacrifices have to be made.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by fula farbrorn

I think a 16 inch barrel and using heavy Hunting ammo would both serve to make it seem less conspicious and let you reach out to around the 450 meter distance fairly accurately.

These are for use on Caribbean islands and on boats near those islands, where the people carrying them will usually not have any license to carry weapons.

Basically, they're flat-out illegal weapons cached there for future use and/or hidden on boats.

[fula farbrorn]

Originally Posted by Icelander

The people doing this have access to a few thousand M1 carbines of WWII vintage, so the folding stocks would be the limiting factor. Granted, those sucked a bit, but for compactness, sacrifices have to be made.

Folding stocks could easily be bought and retrofitted to any M1 carbine that lacks it, and the round packs a fairly okay punch at longer distances, though i wouldnt lob it out longer then 300 or so meters.

The AR 180 looks like the better option and depending on supply could easily be loaded with some interesting bullets.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by fula farbrorn

Folding stocks could easily be bought and retrofitted to any M1 carbine that lacks it, and the round packs a fairly okay punch at longer distances, though i wouldnt lob it out longer then 300 or so meters.

Are optics all that useful on a M1 carbine? That's not a high-velocity round and the BC is poor, so the trajectory is impractical for any distance anyway.

Considering that you need gunsmithing to be able to mount a scope at all, I am unsure that they'd be worth using optics. Simply replacing worn or broken wooden stocks for a few dozen with folding wire stocks would probably be adequate for the purpose, as long as you had space for a 25" long piece and no need for longer range than about 150 meters.

These are especially attractive to cache somewhere there might theoretically be a need for them in the next decade or three, as that's where you don't want to spend huge sums or too much time from your skilled gunsmiths on stuff with a low probability of being important.

Originally Posted by fula farbrorn

The AR 180 looks like the better option and depending on supply could easily be loaded with some interesting bullets.

As long as those are commercially available in the early 1990s.

[Agemegos]

I suppose that the Henry Repeating Arms version of the AR-7 is too small a calibre for your purposes?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

I suppose that the Henry Repeating Arms version of the AR-7 is too small a calibre for your purposes?

There are definitely uses for a takedown .22 LR rifle, but the AR-7 design has a bad reputation for finickiness which is not shared by weapons like the Marlin 39 TDS.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Icelander

A
Also, from what I could find online, the G3 breaks into more than just two parts. The recoil spring comes loose and putting it back together generally sounds like a much more involved procedure than putting the two parts of an AR-15 back together. Could you do it without tools, in less than twenty seconds?

No, you couldn't. However, normally it's attached to the stock, which comes off if you push out two pins, just like the rear pin on an M16. So if you just wanted to take it down for carriage, you'd pop those pins, remove the stock+recoil spring, and then pop the forward pin and remove the trigger group. Oh, if you had the collapsible stock that would help with the stock's length (but the long part is the barrel+receiver).

There are 2 MOA rifles among the TL6 lever-action rifles. The purpose of a more modern rifle with optics would be precision fire at longer ranges than a 7.62x54R with iron sights made possible.

It's much harder shooting 2MOA groups at 300+ metres using iron sights than with a scope. And the removable mount doesn't make it less accurate, it risks a small change in point of aim if it's removed and replaced. I'm unaware of a similar removable mount that could be easily removed and reattached in that time period that was better.

For use-cases where rifles are being concealed in bait boxes or coolers on boats, compact length is more important than weight.

In that case, of the conventional battle rifles a G3 is about as good as you'll get. M14s have that long wooden stock (and aren't weapons you can take down and reassemble swiftly), and the FN FAL is very long. M16s will end up slightly shorter if broken down, but not much. Your best bet for outright firepower would be an AKMS-47 or AKS-74 (or an AKS-74U if you can get one). Of course, that means you're accepting, ah, 'less than stellar' accuracy.