Bio-Tech vs. Cybernetics

[dataweaver]

Comparing Ultra-Tech's sections on Body Modifications and Brain Implants to Bio-Tech's sections on Biomod Transplants, Polykeratin Grafts, Xenotransplants, and Neuromods, there's often a lot of overlap; and sometimes, the cybernetics come out on the short end of the stick. For instance, a cybernetic Boosted Heart is TL10, $10,000, and 19 points, and is Electrical, while the bio-tech Boosted Heart is TL9, $15,000, 15 points, and not Electrical. Its only downside is that it's a little more expensive; but even that goes away when you normalize the TLs: IIRC, if a technology is available before its started TL at all, it costs considerably more (twice as much, I think?); and higher TL versions of a technology cost less for the first few levels (I forget the rule of thumb; but ISTR that it's at least a 2/3 reduction). There may be other cases such as this.

My gut instinct is that when there's overlap between cybernetics and bio-mods, the cybernetic version ought to be cheaper, lower-tech, and/or more limited (e.g., Electrical), or at best equal, all else being equal.

Has anyone done a full comparison of cybernetics vs. bio-tech? If so, what other oddities have you found?

[Varyon]

Just a brief look before I go to bed, but I'll note that, despite the similar names, the two Boosted Hearts are almost nothing alike in effect. The Boosted Heart from UT210 gives Immunity to Heart Attacks, as well as a temporary +1 to Basic Speed (temporary because it burns FP). The Boosted Heart from BIO174 gives +1 to HT, +1 to FP (total +2), and 1 level of Hard to Kill (for total +2 to death checks and the like).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

IIRC, if a technology is available before its started TL at all, it costs considerably more (twice as much, I think?); and higher TL versions of a technology cost less for the first few levels (I forget the rule of thumb; but ISTR that it's at least a 2/3 reduction). T?

If you have a higher personal TL than the Campaign TL you may purchase starting equipment at a price of 2x normal per level that equipment is above the Campaign TL.

A generalized x2 for equipment acquired after start that is 1 above TL seems to be a very common House Rule but I know of no canon source for it.

There were price reductions for lower TL equipment in 3e but they didn't come forward in 4e. Instead there are some times quality increases such as the blade quality thing at TL7. Others would be logical.

I haven't done the systematic comparison you're looking for but of course I've noticed comparative quality levels between cyber and bio. One thing that should probably be noted that while soem cyber is primarily a replacement for lost natural parts bio is almost always an enhancement.

My own concerns are more aimed at an integration of the two rather than "fairness" for cyber. I might also reclassify some bio as cyber and possibly vice versa as I integrated the two books.

[Anthony]

The point costs for biotech and cybertech are not modified by the money cost, the money cost is really just an unusual background tax.

[dataweaver]

Rather, it's a completely different economy than point costs are. There's a broad tendency for higher-point things to cost more money; but it's a weak correlation at best and has many exceptions.

Not that that has anything to do with what I'm asking for. I'm not trying to establish a correlation between money and points; if that was my goal, I'd just use the “trading points for money” rule and be done with it.

[cptbutton]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Just a brief look before I go to bed, but I'll note that, despite the similar names, the two Boosted Hearts are almost nothing alike in effect. The Boosted Heart from UT210 gives Immunity to Heart Attacks, as well as a temporary +1 to Basic Speed (temporary because it burns FP). The Boosted Heart from BIO174 gives +1 to HT, +1 to FP (total +2), and 1 level of Hard to Kill (for total +2 to death checks and the like).

Another difference is that the biotech heart can probably heal itself naturally if it is non-fatally damaged, while the UT heart would need to be repaired or replaced.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

My own concerns are more aimed at an integration of the two rather than "fairness" for cyber. I might also reclassify some bio as cyber and possibly vice versa as I integrated the two books.

That's actually my main concern as well. It's why I was looking for points of comparison between them. My initial thought was too throw out most of the cybernetic stuff, and instead work with the material in Bio-Tech as a baseline, applying appropriate modifiers to rework an organic bio-mod as a cybernetic implant.

But one difference that cotbutten keyed into is that bio-mods heal; cybernetics just malfunction. Replace your missing arm with a vat-grown arm, and you buy off One Arm entirely; replace it with a cybernetic arm, and you just get a Mitigator to One Arm. A very large Mitigator, mind you; but still just a Mitigator. That's why I was thinking that cybernetics ought to be cheaper and/or lower-tech than their bio-tech counterparts, when such counterparts exist: they're more prone to failure, and/or harder to get working again.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

That's actually my main concern as well. It's why I was looking for points of comparison between them. My initial thought was too throw out most of the cybernetic stuff, and instead work with the material in Bio-Tech as a baseline, applying appropriate modifiers to rework an organic bio-mod as a cybernetic implant.

But one difference that cotbutten keyed into is that bio-mods heal; cybernetics just malfunction. Replace your missing arm with a vat-grown arm, and you buy off One Arm entirely; replace it with a cybernetic arm, and you just get a Mitigator to One Arm. A very large Mitigator, mind you; but still just a Mitigator. That's why I was thinking that cybernetics ought to be cheaper and/or lower-tech than their bio-tech counterparts, when such counterparts exist: they're more prone to failure, and/or harder to get working again.

The closest bionic equivalent to the biotech "boosted heart" is actually "bionic Vital Organs". Also available at TL 9 it provides Hard to Kill +2 where the Biotech Boosted Heart provides Hard to Kill +1, and HT +1 and Fatigue +1. The Biotech is substantially better but costs twice as much. More if you consider that that bionic vital organs are recyclable while bio-boosted heart is just biodegradable. I would introduce bionic vital organs early in TL 9 while bio-boosted heart would be mid to late TL9. Even so, bionic vital organs is what rebuilt soldiers would end up with because of the cost issues. The TL 10 bionic "boosted heart" isn't a replacement heart. It's a stimulating implant that could actually be added to natural hearts, bionic vital organs or the biotech boosted heart.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

. Replace your missing arm with a vat-grown arm, and you buy off One Arm entirely; replace it with a cybernetic arm, and you just get a Mitigator to One Arm.

Replace that arm with bio and you'll wait 6 weeks for it to grow and then spend 4 weeks recuperating (probably doing physical therapy too). Get a cyber arm and you can grab the parts off the shelf and be back in action in a week (probably with the time being spent with the chip in the cyber arm adjusting to your nervous system).

So there's some niche for cyber for people who get wounded but can't spend long periods recovering.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Replace that arm with bio and you'll wait 6 weeks for it to grow and then spend 4 weeks recuperating (probably doing physical therapy too). Get a cyber arm and you can grab the parts off the shelf and be back in action in a week (probably with the time being spent with the chip in the cyber arm adjusting to your nervous system).

So there's some niche for cyber for people who get wounded but can't spend long periods recovering.

A "best of both worlds" scenario is also possible, here. Get a cybernetic arm while your fleshy one is being grown, then once the growth period is over (and you've got 4 weeks to spare for physical therapy and the like) you swap out the cybernetic arm for the fleshy one. You could potentially have a cybernetic "brace" of some flavor that you transfer the data from your cyber arm into, and that can move your new arm for you while it's getting used to your body, so you can still function at semi-normal capacity during that recovery period.

At least for the first bit, I think this isn't entirely dissimilar to how modern prosthetics are done - the person comes in, gets properly fitted for a prosthetic, then uses a basic "loaner" model while the new custom one is being built to the appropriate specifications.