Need Help Modelling An Advantage

Raekai · 04-20-2012, 11:59 PM

In the manga Bleach, there exist Shinigami. No problem. I'll count them as spirits. Ethereal and whatnot.

The problem? Gigai. These are essentially puppet-like bodies that the Shinigami can possess in order to interact with the physical world.

How would you go about modelling that? As an ally? Signature gear? What's the value?

Also, for possession, would having to use only human gigai be equivalent to having both "Puppet Only" plus "Specialized: One Species of animal"?

Thanks!

munin · 04-21-2012, 01:10 AM

There are a few ways to do this. If they have many different bodies with different capabilities, then you could use the rules for computer AIs possessing robot shells (Possession, and buy the most powerful shell as your main body and the others as Allies or Puppets -- see "Vessel" Cybershells, GURPS Transhuman Space: Changing Times, p. 39).

Another way to do it, if they're all interchangeable, is to treat gigai as gadgets. A spirit who can't materialize has Always On, -50% on their Insubstantiality. If they can turn off their limitation if they have access to something, then you could model that with a limitation-removing gadget-limited enhancement: Always On, -50% + Not Always On (Breakable, DR 2 or less, SM 0, -45%; Can Be Stolen, Quick Contest of ST*, Will not work for thief, -15%), +20% -- i.e., it's always on unless you have a gadget, which can be broken or stolen. I'd just summarize that as Always On, Except with gigai, -30%.

* I think I remember people (Kon?) being forced out of a gigai with a punch to the stomach.

Raekai · 04-21-2012, 08:25 AM

Thank you for those two solutions! However, I'm looking for some kind of weird mix between the two. I like the Vessel idea, but I'm confused as to why I need to buy the main body for a significant amount of points rather than treat them all just as allies.
Then the problem for the second one is: How do I model the cost of a gigai? What would something like that cost? I have NO idea.

David Johnston2 · 04-21-2012, 08:49 AM

It's gear. And not all that expensive gear at that. Maybe a thousand bucks.

munin · 04-21-2012, 08:57 AM

The Allies advantage is mostly limited to allies of your point cost or less, so you take the most expensive body as your primary body so that all the others can be allies. In the case of a shinigami occupying a gigai, the shinigami body is going to be the most expensive body, so it shouldn't be a problem (most gigai are low-point human models, or negative-point dolls).

If you treat the gigai as a simple gadget, then its cost will be related to the time required to craft it and its craftsman's expected monthly pay, assuming its available for cash at all. I think they're usually just given out aren't they? In which case it might simply be provided to you by a Patron (the Soul Society) or a Contact (Urahara).

Raekai · 04-21-2012, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It's gear. And not all that expensive gear at that. Maybe a thousand bucks.

Thank you for that. I was thinking somewhere around $1000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by munin

The Allies advantage is mostly limited to allies of your point cost or less, so you take the most expensive body as your primary body so that all the others can be allies. In the case of a shinigami occupying a gigai, the shinigami body is going to be the most expensive body, so it shouldn't be a problem (most gigai are low-point human models, or negative-point dolls).

If you treat the gigai as a simple gadget, then its cost will be related to the time required to craft it and its craftsman's expected monthly pay, assuming its available for cash at all. I think they're usually just given out aren't they? In which case it might simply be provided to you by a Patron (the Soul Society) or a Contact (Urahara).

I'm confused about the part I put in bold. So are you saying that I'm not actually BUYING the gigai as my main body because the Shinigami template would be worth more than it? I'm just clarifying.

My solution thus far: I'm going to give my character a main gigai that is an Ally for points. Then, as a mix of both things, I'm going to either give him a Contact or a Patron where he can buy more gigai for about $1000 more or less depending on the quality and what not.

munin · 04-21-2012, 10:05 AM

Probably a confusion between buying a body as an Ally, and buying a body as a racial template on your character sheet.

The AI/cybershell method is for when you have a disembodied consciousness that can occupy multiple bodies -- then you pay for the most expensive body as "your" physical body and buy the other bodies as Allies.

A shinigami already has a body, it's just insubstantial, so it's obvious which body you should buy as "your" body (the same was any non-human does, just pay for the racial template on your character sheet). Since the racial insubstantiality is likely to make the shinigami body more expensive than any gigai body he might want, there's no problem buying the gigai as Allies (if your gigai were significantly more expensive then you couldn't use Allies, you'd have to try something else like Altered Form).

04-20-2012, 11:59 PM	#1
Raekai World's Worst Detective Join Date: May 2011 Location: Columbus, Ohio	Need Help Modelling An Advantage In the manga Bleach, there exist Shinigami. No problem. I'll count them as spirits. Ethereal and whatnot. The problem? Gigai. These are essentially puppet-like bodies that the Shinigami can possess in order to interact with the physical world. How would you go about modelling that? As an ally? Signature gear? What's the value? Also, for possession, would having to use only human gigai be equivalent to having both "Puppet Only" plus "Specialized: One Species of animal"? Thanks!

04-21-2012, 01:10 AM	#2
munin Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vermont, USA	Re: Need Help Modelling An Advantage There are a few ways to do this. If they have many different bodies with different capabilities, then you could use the rules for computer AIs possessing robot shells (Possession, and buy the most powerful shell as your main body and the others as Allies or Puppets -- see "Vessel" Cybershells, GURPS Transhuman Space: Changing Times, p. 39). Another way to do it, if they're all interchangeable, is to treat gigai as gadgets. A spirit who can't materialize has Always On, -50% on their Insubstantiality. If they can turn off their limitation if they have access to something, then you could model that with a limitation-removing gadget-limited enhancement: Always On, -50% + Not Always On (Breakable, DR 2 or less, SM 0, -45%; Can Be Stolen, Quick Contest of ST, Will not work for thief, -15%), +20% -- i.e., it's always on unless you have a gadget, which can be broken or stolen. I'd just summarize that as Always On, Except with gigai, -30%. I think I remember people (Kon?) being forced out of a gigai with a punch to the stomach. Last edited by munin; 04-21-2012 at 01:15 AM.

04-21-2012, 08:25 AM	#3
Raekai World's Worst Detective Join Date: May 2011 Location: Columbus, Ohio	Re: Need Help Modelling An Advantage Thank you for those two solutions! However, I'm looking for some kind of weird mix between the two. I like the Vessel idea, but I'm confused as to why I need to buy the main body for a significant amount of points rather than treat them all just as allies. Then the problem for the second one is: How do I model the cost of a gigai? What would something like that cost? I have NO idea.

04-21-2012, 08:49 AM	#4
David Johnston2 Join Date: Dec 2007	Re: Need Help Modelling An Advantage It's gear. And not all that expensive gear at that. Maybe a thousand bucks.

04-21-2012, 08:57 AM	#5
munin Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vermont, USA	Re: Need Help Modelling An Advantage The Allies advantage is mostly limited to allies of your point cost or less, so you take the most expensive body as your primary body so that all the others can be allies. In the case of a shinigami occupying a gigai, the shinigami body is going to be the most expensive body, so it shouldn't be a problem (most gigai are low-point human models, or negative-point dolls). If you treat the gigai as a simple gadget, then its cost will be related to the time required to craft it and its craftsman's expected monthly pay, assuming its available for cash at all. I think they're usually just given out aren't they? In which case it might simply be provided to you by a Patron (the Soul Society) or a Contact (Urahara).

04-21-2012, 10:05 AM	#7
munin Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vermont, USA	Re: Need Help Modelling An Advantage Probably a confusion between buying a body as an Ally, and buying a body as a racial template on your character sheet. The AI/cybershell method is for when you have a disembodied consciousness that can occupy multiple bodies -- then you pay for the most expensive body as "your" physical body and buy the other bodies as Allies. A shinigami already has a body, it's just insubstantial, so it's obvious which body you should buy as "your" body (the same was any non-human does, just pay for the racial template on your character sheet). Since the racial insubstantiality is likely to make the shinigami body more expensive than any gigai body he might want, there's no problem buying the gigai as Allies (if your gigai were significantly more expensive then you couldn't use Allies, you'd have to try something else like Altered Form).