When Signature Gear Becomes Expensive

[Grunker]

Okay. Here is what I'm thinking right now. Feel free to tell me if that's a bad/good idea:

- I don't think it's fair to demand a player pay 29 points for money that he is FORCED to spend on gear. Witchers also spend around 15 points on Unusual Background traits to gain access to their field of powers (access to "known, but secret" magic powers, resistance to toxicity of alchemy, special uses for the Monster Lore skill and stuff like that).

- I fo think, however, that 8 points WITH plot protection becomes mighty cheap for two swords of pretty good quality, and I honestly think a witcher should lose his gear if he is careless. There is no compelling argument to fuse Gear-For-Money and Plot Protection.

- I think this is a very compelling argument however:

Kromms rule probably works best in a setting where characters don't necessaily have substantial wealth, and yet might well have 1 or 2 items of 'Signature Gear' worth substantially more than their personal wealth - e.g. A wandering Knight's Armour and Horse; or Han Solo and the Millenium Falcon.

and since this would only be available to Witchers (who have purchased access via an Unusual Background advantage already), it fits perfectly.

- My suggested compromise is, therefore, to use Kromm's version of Signature Gear, but remove the plot protection from that version of the advantage. Thus, for 8 points a Struggling Witcher is allowed to buy gear for $19,500. This gear is not plot protected. If the witcher wants to protect his gear, he can buy PK's plot protection.

How do we like that solution?

[Anaraxes]

If you remove the plot protection from Sig Gear, you've removed the main point. The advantage then becomes just Points For Cash or Wealth.

Kromm's post is an attempt to make the Points-For-Cash portion of Sig Gear scale the way the Wealth levels do. PK's houserule separates the two, and also alters the way Points-For-Cash works.

If you don't want plot protection, then just give Witchers an Unusual Background that allows them access to superior Witcher gear, and cash (in whatever form you prefer, Wealth, Points For Cash, or houseruled versions thereof) to cover the initial setup.

Plot protection is for when the character just doesn't make sense or isn't the same without their special, distinctive, gear. The gear is part of the character i the way personality is supposed to be. (Often, characters wind up being defined by their powers, not their personalities or stories. Supers are prone to this, for instance. Gear can have the same effect; your character is his stuff. SF games are prone to this.)

If Witchers need the special toys to seem like Witchers, give them the plot protection. If their Witcher-ness will survive just fine with regular swords, and you'd be happy to keep running the game even after all the PCs permanently lost their toys, then it's just gear.

[Grunker]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Kromm's post is an attempt to make the Points-For-Cash portion of Sig Gear scale the way the Wealth levels do. PK's houserule separates the two, and also alters the way Points-For-Cash works..

I realize that, but I don't see why it doesn't work strictly as points-for-gear (not points-for-cash, you're forced to buy gear). Actually I think it arguably works better for that since Kromm's version is based on the scaling of Wealth and has no additions for plot protection.

In other words; what about my suggested solution does not work? :)

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Grunker

In other words; what about my suggested solution does not work? :)

Calling it Signature Gear :)

You've apparently arrived at the conclusion that you want a points-for-gear mechanism that scales with Wealth. Great; go for it. Witcher gear doesn't ate plot protection. Great; you might even simply decide that no form of plot protection is available at all.

The interesting and novel feature of "Signature Gear" in my mind is the plot protection. I'm in favor of splitting that out from purchasing power, regardless of what happens to the wealth portion (which have all sorts of different issues for different people in different styles of game).

[Grunker]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Calling it Signature Gear :)

You've apparently arrived at the conclusion that you want a points-for-gear mechanism that scales with Wealth. Great; go for it. Witcher gear doesn't ate plot protection. Great; you might even simply decide that no form of plot protection is available at all.

The interesting and novel feature of "Signature Gear" in my mind is the plot protection. I'm in favor of splitting that out from purchasing power, regardless of what happens to the wealth portion (which have all sorts of different issues for different people in different styles of game).

Like the OP signifies, what I was looking for was a way to buy expensive gear for points. Which only SG and TPFC was able to give me before. So what I'm saying now is that out of the alternatives presented to me, I like the ones I posted most recently best.

I might have overlooked something, or there might be a better solution. If so, I'd really like to hear it :)

Otherwise, I'm rolling with that.

[Otaku]

Just to be upfront: I read through this thread, but mostly because of the underlying issue, not because I am a Witcher fan... I barely know about that series. That the title seems a bit misleading. ;-) I have a suggestion, but I freely admit this may be completely idiotic as the few times it has been used occurred about a little over a decade a go... under 3rd Edition rules.

Back then, we (my old gaming group) allowed players to Take Temporary Wealth in excess of the official rule's limit of "Wealthy" (and if the concept justified it, without the 80/20 restrictions on how it is spent). You also had the option of having your earning level shift to something other than average, with the "permanent" Wealth level also being only half price.

So to play a Witcher as described above, you'd take Wealth: Struggling (Does Not Affect Starting Income, -50%) [-5] and Wealth: Very Wealthy (Temporary, -50%) [15] for a net 10 points (I forget how we wrote it shorthand; it was treated as one Advantage if final result was positive/one Disadvantage if negative). If I did that math correctly, that is $20,000 to spend.

Besides an equipment heavy character like a wandering warrior, it was useful for that landed noble who was effectively Dead Broke in terms of earning potential... save adventuring with the party, which didn't make him rich but merely allowed him to pay taxes, creditors, etc. on the holdings he already had (and if adventuring agrees with him, he would be encouraged or even forced to put points into buying up his permanent Wealth level).

Now, if this has been broken repeatedly and I just don't know, feel free to let me know. >.>

[Grunker]

the title seems a bit misleading.

Granted :P

Back then, we (my old gaming group) allowed players to Take Temporary Wealth in excess of the official rule's limit of "Wealthy" (and if the concept justified it, without the 80/20 restrictions on how it is spent). You also had the option of having your earning level shift to something other than average, with the "permanent" Wealth level also being only half price.

So to play a Witcher as described above, you'd take Wealth: Struggling (Does Not Affect Starting Income, -50%) [-5] and Wealth: Very Wealthy (Temporary, -50%) [15] for a net 10 points (I forget how we wrote it shorthand; it was treated as one Advantage if final result was positive/one Disadvantage if negative). If I did that math correctly, that is $20,000 to spend.

Besides an equipment heavy character like a wandering warrior, it was useful for that landed noble who was effectively Dead Broke in terms of earning potential... save adventuring with the party, which didn't make him rich but merely allowed him to pay taxes, creditors, etc. on the holdings he already had (and if adventuring agrees with him, he would be encouraged or even forced to put points into buying up his permanent Wealth level).

Now, if this has been broken repeatedly and I just don't know, feel free to let me know. >.>

Seems to me that solution ends up being pretty similar to the one I'm considering using now :)

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Grunker

Seems to me that solution ends up being pretty similar to the one I'm considering using now :)

Indeed... except I personally found it much simpler. I mean... select starting wealth level, select continuing wealth level, calculate the point difference, pay half*, begin with said starting wealth level while only having the "earning potential" of your continuing Wealth level.

No other charts, no Signature Gear rules, etc.

Though if you don't use it, I still hope someone warns me about any abuses they consider (by PM if they fear it will derail this thread). ;)

*Probably worded that wrong, but since the previous post detailed it, leaving it at is.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Or do:

• "Witcher Gear" [5]
  • Patron (Equipment, More than average starting wealth, +100%; Minimal Intervention, -50%; Secret, -50%; 6 or less, *1/2) [5]
  • Description: The character has been given some gear due to certain background details for their own use and purposes. Said gear isn't likely to be replaced if lost or sold; treasure it. It can be worth up to 1 thousand times average starting wealth for [5], up to 10 thousand times for [8], up to 100 thousand times for [10], up to 1 million times for [13] and up to whatever you can sweet talk your GM into accepting for [15]. Additionally, on rare occasion, someone or something will tweak things in your favor; subtly, indirectly, from the background. Your character doesn't know who is doing this, why they are doing this or even that they are doing this. It may not even be something your character enjoys the result of as its' intended to serve this unknowns interests one way or another.