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Old 07-18-2022, 05:02 AM   #41
scc
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: [Spaceships] Getting A Few Thousand Extra MPS

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
That's not enough against cosmic radiation. That divides all PFs by 100. You'd want 10 feet to give protection equal to Earth's atmosphere.

Generally PF schemes only delay when you need those expensive anti-radiation treatments.
Pretty sure that Colonies in Space said 5 feet, but it's been so long since I last read my copy I don't know where it is. But generally I'm not too interested in figuring out radiation protection in this campaign other then to note that it exists.

Any way here's the first two genetic upgrades offered in this setting, they aren't that common anymore and I'm not 100% satisfied with the first, but their something:


UGene-Tech Explorer 20pts
UGene-Tech, founded by a Eugene Steward, was one of the first human gene-engineering companies on the scene. Early on their work consisted of gene-screening the embryos of the rcih but their big breakthrough came when they where awarded the contract for the ESA/Royal Society Sublight Exploration Crew Creation Contract, the UGene-Tech Explorer line of genemoded humans was the result, these Upgrades form the basis for many more modern Upgrades. Those that didn't make the cut for the mission soon found work in various Deep Space roles, their ability to hibernate proving most useful. Despite it long falling out of favour with parents it's long lifespan means that some even surrive to the 2300's.

Advantages: Hibernation 9 [18]; Longevity [2].
Perks: No Degeneration in Zero-G [1].
Disadvantages: Curious [-5]; Loner [-5].
Quirks: Imaginative [-1].

Pick one of these Lenses:
Doctor: Add Healer 1 [10].
Engineer: Add Artificer 1 [10].
Scientist: Add Natural Scientist 1 [10].

UGene-Tech Frre Floater 20pts
Already in the works when the Crew Contract was signed and subsiquantly put onto something of a back burner. Materials from each was used on the other and about a decade after the Explorer. Never very popular with parents, because it basically would trap their children in space, but achived some modest sucess and improved versions of it still see some uptake. The attempt to conteract muscle degederation in Zero-G was overzealous, producing excess strength, but given the construction prokects most Free Floaters ended up working this was scene as a boon.
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: +1 Lifting ST [3].
Advantages: Extra Arms 2 (Foot Manipulators, -30%) [14]; Longevity [2].
Perks: No Degeneration in Zero-G [1].
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Old 07-18-2022, 07:23 AM   #42
Aldric
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: [Spaceships] Getting A Few Thousand Extra MPS

I was going to say that you might have some issues with Radiation on your STL flight, but it seems that voyage is already history.

However I'd still give your explorer better HT, Resistance to radiation, and definitely not Loner, work space on the ship when not hybernating might end up pretty cramped. Even more so for an exploration/mining/lander small craft
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Old 07-18-2022, 08:53 AM   #43
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: [Spaceships] Getting A Few Thousand Extra MPS

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Originally Posted by scc View Post
Advantages: Hibernation 9 [18]; Longevity [2].
Perks: No Degeneration in Zero-G [1].
Disadvantages: Curious [-5]; Loner [-5].
Quirks: Imaginative [-1].

Pick one of these Lenses:
Doctor: Add Healer 1 [10].
Engineer: Add Artificer 1 [10].
Scientist: Add Natural Scientist 1 [10].
Curious seems like a bad idea. The way it's written, it routinely tempts you into doing potentially dangerous things just to see what happens. In a high-risk environment such as outer space that's going to get you killed.

Are you supposing that parents were given a choice of one of three genetic packages that made for a Talent? Or do you envision a single set of genetic changes that could manifest in three different ways?

Quote:
UGene-Tech Frre Floater 20pts
Already in the works when the Crew Contract was signed and subsiquantly put onto something of a back burner. Materials from each was used on the other and about a decade after the Explorer. Never very popular with parents, because it basically would trap their children in space, but achived some modest sucess and improved versions of it still see some uptake. The attempt to conteract muscle degederation in Zero-G was overzealous, producing excess strength, but given the construction prokects most Free Floaters ended up working this was scene as a boon.
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: +1 Lifting ST [3].
Advantages: Extra Arms 2 (Foot Manipulators, -30%) [14]; Longevity [2].
Perks: No Degeneration in Zero-G [1].
I'm wondering if Perfect Balance might be appropriate. It doesn't seem to give a bonus to Free Fall, but the benefit to Aerobatics might be useful.

3D Spatial Sense might also be worth considering.

Finally, you might consider spending 5 points on Immunity to Space Sickness.
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Old 07-18-2022, 11:05 AM   #44
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: [Spaceships] Getting A Few Thousand Extra MPS

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Originally Posted by scc View Post
Pretty sure that Colonies in Space said 5 feet, but it's been so long since I last read my copy I don't know where it is.
Usual estimates for getting doses below OSHA limits are about 5 tons per square meter (roughly half of Earth's atmosphere; how thick this is depends on the material), varying somewhat with composition (unlike gamma rays, cosmic ray shielding works better with light elements).

The rules for cosmic radiation PF aren't terribly accurate, but the rules for radiation PF in general are not super accurate.
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Old 07-18-2022, 11:44 AM   #45
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: [Spaceships] Getting A Few Thousand Extra MPS

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post

The rules for cosmic radiation PF aren't terribly accurate, but the rules for radiation PF in general are not super accurate.
<shrug>The latest research i'm aware of suggests that heavy charged particles like cosmic rays do more damage than gamma rays. So we're inaccurate all around.

I've also heard that cosmic rays beyond the heliopause double which would matter to that STL trip.

<shrugs again> if scc desn't want to deal with radiation beyond "token" levels of shielding that's fine but the development that would actually bring that about is Regeneration(Radiation) either by genetic engineering or nano-symbiote.

However, even telling players that "It's at least 5 years until your characters should get a dose of anti-radiation gene therapy" wou\ld preserve some realism.
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Old 07-18-2022, 04:27 PM   #46
scc
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: [Spaceships] Getting A Few Thousand Extra MPS

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Originally Posted by Aldric View Post
I was going to say that you might have some issues with Radiation on your STL flight, but it seems that voyage is already history.
Yeah, exploring a single solar system isn't something that I feel would make for a very good game. The furthest manned missions (out to 10 ly.) have all reached their destinations, conducted their investigations, radioed home the most important information and begun their journey's home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Curious seems like a bad idea. The way it's written, it routinely tempts you into doing potentially dangerous things just to see what happens. In a high-risk environment such as outer space that's going to get you killed.
ALL GURPS Disadvantages are like that when you read what they actually do, I picked ones that seemed appropriate to a scientist.

Are you supposing that parents were given a choice of one of three genetic packages that made for a Talent? Or do you envision a single set of genetic changes that could manifest in three different ways?[/QUOTE]
Parents, at least latter on. For the first batch it was decided by the needs of the service

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldric View Post
However I'd still give your explorer better HT, Resistance to radiation, and definitely not Loner, work space on the ship when not hybernating might end up pretty cramped. Even more so for an exploration/mining/lander small craft
Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I'm wondering if Perfect Balance might be appropriate. It doesn't seem to give a bonus to Free Fall, but the benefit to Aerobatics might be useful.

3D Spatial Sense might also be worth considering.

Finally, you might consider spending 5 points on Immunity to Space Sickness.
So some background here, I've been playing Stellaris a lot lately and that's been influencing my thinking here. Specifically in this case I'm thinking that there is a limit on how much gene-engineering can be done, represented by total point cost, that increases as time goes on, so this early on a racial template can't be over 20 points, and I'm thinking that mental advantages (where mental equates to involves the nervous system, so it includes straight up increases to DX) in particular are flawed and it takes longer to get all the kinks worked out. That said, for the STL missions at least the germ plasma would be pulled from carefully selected individuals, so think Arnold's character in twins but then add some genetic engineering on top of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Usual estimates for getting doses below OSHA limits are about 5 tons per square meter (roughly half of Earth's atmosphere; how thick this is depends on the material), varying somewhat with composition (unlike gamma rays, cosmic ray shielding works better with light elements).

The rules for cosmic radiation PF aren't terribly accurate, but the rules for radiation PF in general are not super accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
<shrug>The latest research i'm aware of suggests that heavy charged particles like cosmic rays do more damage than gamma rays. So we're inaccurate all around.

I've also heard that cosmic rays beyond the heliopause double which would matter to that STL trip.

<shrugs again> if scc desn't want to deal with radiation beyond "token" levels of shielding that's fine but the development that would actually bring that about is Regeneration(Radiation) either by genetic engineering or nano-symbiote.

However, even telling players that "It's at least 5 years until your characters should get a dose of anti-radiation gene therapy" wou\ld preserve some realism.
Well the idea I've got at the moment involves a barbarians at the gate situation on Earth and the players are there, as for high radiation environments, like Jupiter, well people from this civilization just don't go there. There might be a mermaid (all female) colony under the ice on Europa, but that's probably as deep into the belts humans go and that's not very regular.
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Old 07-18-2022, 09:33 PM   #47
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: [Spaceships] Getting A Few Thousand Extra MPS

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Originally Posted by scc View Post
as for high radiation environments, like Jupiter, well people from this civilization just don't go there. T.
Jupiter's radiation belts are low energy charged particles. Those multiply PF by 20 instead of dividing it by 100 like cosmic rays. So you have to go into the rad belts until they hit 2000 rads/week before it equals the "normal" threat of interplanetary space beyond Earth's magnetosphere.

Note that you'll have to do major aquaforming on Europa's oceans to create any sort of ecology for the mermaids to live in. The oxygen content of the waters of Europa is probably near zero.
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Old 07-19-2022, 02:58 AM   #48
Aldric
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: [Spaceships] Getting A Few Thousand Extra MPS

I think a mermaid that can survive the oceans of Europa goes way beyond the 20 or so CP template.

Unless you just meant an undersea colony.

@Fred Spaceships 5 mentions cosmic radiation outside the solar system is 2x. Which is why I was concerned about it, it might not seem much, unless you want to take it for 200 years
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Old 07-19-2022, 05:07 AM   #49
scc
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: [Spaceships] Getting A Few Thousand Extra MPS

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Note that you'll have to do major aquaforming on Europa's oceans to create any sort of ecology for the mermaids to live in. The oxygen content of the waters of Europa is probably near zero.
I'm thinking Oxygen Storage over Gills, but there still needs to be an ecosystem to support them. -Shrugs- it was just an idea, the mermaids will exist, as will at least 2 other slightly problematic designs (Catgirl and [green] skinned [alien] space babe), possibly use the mermaids for a different game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldric View Post
I think a mermaid that can survive the oceans of Europa goes way beyond the 20 or so CP template.

Unless you just meant an undersea colony.

@Fred Spaceships 5 mentions cosmic radiation outside the solar system is 2x. Which is why I was concerned about it, it might not seem much, unless you want to take it for 200 years
So the two key traits you need for a mermaid are No Legs (Aquatic), which is [0] and either Gills which is [0] or [10], you'll probably want the [10] version, to talk to land dwellers, or some form of Oxygen Storage, which tops out at [18], that's less then 20 points. But these would be made in a more advanced period of engineering, so they get a bigger budget, probably 40 points. Other traits needed would be a couple of levels of temperature tolerance and some pressure support, to allow for deeper dives. For a more classic mermaid Voice would apply.

And yeah this would be an undersea colony.
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Old 07-19-2022, 07:25 AM   #50
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: [Spaceships] Getting A Few Thousand Extra MPS

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Originally Posted by scc View Post

So the two key traits you need for a mermaid are No Legs (Aquatic), which is [0] and either Gills which is [0] or [10], you'll probably want the [10] version, to talk to land dwellers, or some form of Oxygen Storage, which tops out at [18], that's less then 20 points. y.
Tthe Gills trait is also rated as TL12 in Bio-Tech and this is being generous in not declaring them as ^. Air contains 30x as much O2 by volume. Breathing 30x as much water as air is a _problem_ and could easily lead to a design that worked better as a propulsion system than for respiration.

By comparison Catgirls are only hard if they are more than superfiicially feline. If it's just fur, pointy ears and a tail it's pretty trivial. The problems would come with DX boosts, Perfect Balance, Super Jump, Ultrahearing and Night Vision.

The only practical issue with green-skinned space babes is finding an organic pigment in the right shade and i suspect this is an easily solvable problem compared to many other things in gengineering.
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