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Old 03-17-2023, 06:23 AM   #11
whswhs
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Fashion Sense

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
I've literally seen one character in all my playing have it, and I made her about a month ago. Although thinking about it, there's likely a lot of my NPCs that had it without me knowing it. But the reason I've never taken it is because there's so many fully passive traits that just make more sense most of the time. That, and 'having clothes' or 'being free of disasters that would ruin my looks' are very much not guaranteed (hey wait, Sartorial Integrity exists, hmm...).
I think a case might be made that you're getting it backward. So you suffer a disaster that ruins your stylist outfit? Having Fashion Sense lets you improvise a replacement outfit. You go to a thrift store, or hunt through the attic or the closet where you keep clothes you seldom wear, or take down curtains and sew them into a dress the way Scarlett O'Hara did, or even pick up rags and clean them and sew them together. And because you have Fashion Sense, what you come up with looks good on you and makes as good an impression as your rival could get by shopping at the expensive stores. Or better. That's actually how Fashion Sense is written.

Admittedly it's a bit cinematic, but I like it a lot.
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Old 03-17-2023, 07:00 AM   #12
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Fashion Sense

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I think a case might be made that you're getting it backward. So you suffer a disaster that ruins your stylist outfit? Having Fashion Sense lets you improvise a replacement outfit. You go to a thrift store, or hunt through the attic or the closet where you keep clothes you seldom wear, or take down curtains and sew them into a dress the way Scarlett O'Hara did, or even pick up rags and clean them and sew them together. And because you have Fashion Sense, what you come up with looks good on you and makes as good an impression as your rival could get by shopping at the expensive stores. Or better. That's actually how Fashion Sense is written.

Admittedly it's a bit cinematic, but I like it a lot.
At the very worst, and you're forced to dress in clothes way under your station, it mitigates the penalty from that. Done right, you start a new fashion of 'dressing down' (though not in authentic poor people's clothing of course).
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Old 03-17-2023, 05:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Fashion Sense

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I think a case might be made that you're getting it backward. So you suffer a disaster that ruins your stylist outfit? Having Fashion Sense lets you improvise a replacement outfit. You go to a thrift store, or hunt through the attic or the closet where you keep clothes you seldom wear, or take down curtains and sew them into a dress the way Scarlett O'Hara did, or even pick up rags and clean them and sew them together. And because you have Fashion Sense, what you come up with looks good on you and makes as good an impression as your rival could get by shopping at the expensive stores. Or better. That's actually how Fashion Sense is written.

Admittedly it's a bit cinematic, but I like it a lot.
Oh, the point was specifically if I don't get that chance. If there's no downtime in a given session which ruins everything but plenty in the next to fix it, then I effectively only have Fashion Sense half the time. Charisma works no matter how I look or what has recently happened to me.

Mind, if I wanted to go full cinematic, then Fashion Sense might be able to make even mud and twigs look good.
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Old 03-17-2023, 06:41 PM   #14
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Fashion Sense

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Oh, the point was specifically if I don't get that chance. If there's no downtime in a given session which ruins everything but plenty in the next to fix it, then I effectively only have Fashion Sense half the time. Charisma works no matter how I look or what has recently happened to me.
On the other hand, you can't use Charisma to make another person look good.
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Old 03-17-2023, 06:45 PM   #15
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Fashion Sense

Just as a further note, my current campaign—set on Mars in an alternate history, but a telenovela/soap opera/slice of life as far as story is concerned—has a lot of attention going to clothing. My players have many images saved of visual references for their characters, including how they dress.
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Old 03-17-2023, 08:24 PM   #16
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Fashion Sense

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
Oh, the point was specifically if I don't get that chance. If there's no downtime in a given session which ruins everything but plenty in the next to fix it, then I effectively only have Fashion Sense half the time. Charisma works no matter how I look or what has recently happened to me.

Mind, if I wanted to go full cinematic, then Fashion Sense might be able to make even mud and twigs look good.
You don't need extensive downtime. You only need time to plan your attire in advance. So if you have any time in which you could make a choice, it applies. It doesn't require stitching things together or making specific purchases, just that you have time to plan ahead. That doesn't need to be long at all.

Sure, if you're on the run and literally have no time to stop and think and making a few changes it won't apply, but over an entire session that's not typically the case.
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Old 03-17-2023, 08:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Fashion Sense

The importance of fashion is relative to the setting. Societies with hierarchical structures that aren't completely frozen social maneuvers among the influential can be a path to influence and power. A campaign based on either The Three Musketeers or Dune would see Fashion Sense being important. However campaigns based on Beowulf or Daybreak 2250AD would have no place for FashionSense. Similarly, societies that lack fashion per se, FashionSense would be irrelevant.
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Old 03-18-2023, 05:25 AM   #18
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Fashion Sense

Looking at Fashion Sense again, it feels like one of those traits that could easily be leveled if the GM okay'd it. Fashion Sense 10 feels like a great subtle super power as much as Charisma 10 does. Might even work as a power talent for the right set up.

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
On the other hand, you can't use Charisma to make another person look good.
Absolutely true. Although that application keeps teasing my brain about Fashion Sense maybe making more sense as a part of some skill I don't have enough real world knowledge about to assign it to.

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You don't need extensive downtime. You only need time to plan your attire in advance. So if you have any time in which you could make a choice, it applies. It doesn't require stitching things together or making specific purchases, just that you have time to plan ahead. That doesn't need to be long at all.

Sure, if you're on the run and literally have no time to stop and think and making a few changes it won't apply, but over an entire session that's not typically the case.
That's a pretty big assumption you're making ;)

Importantly, how much in advance? How much time do I need to plan ahead? Are we talking seconds, minutes, an hour? Rereading it in Basic I absolutely have no idea as a GM how long I would require of a player, let alone be able to determine as a player if it was worth it*. I was thinking I could make some sort of guess as if it was a limitation on Charisma by figuring out what the enhancement of 'I can put my bonus on others, too' would be, but that's far better than Affects Others because it isn't necessarily limited in how many I can affect and I don't have to stay in contact with them.

And thinking on it more, that "plan" word makes it kind of seem like I have to know what my plans are. Do I have to plan appropriately for specific situations? If I'm planning on going to a gala and last minute the party (including me) decides that going to the skeevy gambling den is the best plan, did I somehow plan my fashion accordingly? I literally don't know.

*The character I did put it on explicitly will have plenty of downtime to the point I'm certain Fashion Sense is worth more than Charisma in this given campaign.
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Old 03-18-2023, 05:58 AM   #19
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Fashion Sense

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
Importantly, how much in advance? How much time do I need to plan ahead? Are we talking seconds, minutes, an hour? Rereading it in Basic I absolutely have no idea as a GM how long I would require of a player, let alone be able to determine as a player if it was worth it*. I was thinking I could make some sort of guess as if it was a limitation on Charisma by figuring out what the enhancement of 'I can put my bonus on others, too' would be, but that's far better than Affects Others because it isn't necessarily limited in how many I can affect and I don't have to stay in contact with them.

And thinking on it more, that "plan" word makes it kind of seem like I have to know what my plans are. Do I have to plan appropriately for specific situations? If I'm planning on going to a gala and last minute the party (including me) decides that going to the skeevy gambling den is the best plan, did I somehow plan my fashion accordingly? I literally don't know.

*The character I did put it on explicitly will have plenty of downtime to the point I'm certain Fashion Sense is worth more than Charisma in this given campaign.
I think you're reading vastly more into it than needed. People with fashion sense in the real world can fix up pretty much anything in a moment. It's giving you (or someone you dress) a +1 bonus. It's not saying "you are dressed perfectly for a particular event". You just have an outfit that "works" and enhances your look.

Dressing "appropriately" is more about savoir faire - fashion sense just lets you be a bit better at it.

Fashion sense means no matter what event you turn up to, you're dressed in a way that gives a small, positive impression.
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Old 03-18-2023, 06:04 AM   #20
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Fashion Sense

I've never seen a face take it. They have other, more safe yet flexible places to sink their points. The ones I've seen jump on Fashion Sense were the lords and managers. Forget an adventuring party or similar bunch of people; where this shines is when you can design uniforms and livery. Being able to give all your guards, receptionists and service staff +1 on reaction rolls can be a significant force multiplier during unstable times in large cities. As Hugo Boss can attest.
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