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Old 10-31-2021, 05:06 PM   #51
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

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Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
I like this.

"An invisible hand grabs attempts to snatch your weapon from your grip." This is going to be a surprise. So, I would do this in two stages: 1) may be disarmed due to getting caught off guard then 2) may be disarmed by being wrested by force.

Phase 1:
- if the weapon is one handed (wands-staffs, dagger-staffs, one-handed-club-staffs, and all normal 1 handed weapons): 3/DX save by the weapon holder
What if the TK snatcher is physically stronger than the person they are trying to disarm? Should that bump it up to 4d/DX?
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Old 10-31-2021, 05:34 PM   #52
Axly Suregrip
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
What if the TK snatcher is physically stronger than the person they are trying to disarm? Should that bump it up to 4d/DX?
No, the DX save is just for catching him/her off guard. The ST difference will come in during phase 2.

BTW, phase 1 and 2 both happen in turn 1. If the TK caster persists, then only phase 2 in other turns.

So, the weapon hold may have to make two saves in the first turn. A bit unusual to do it this way, but it is how I would address it since it is a matter of both surprise and ST.
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Old 10-31-2021, 05:46 PM   #53
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

I do like Axly's solution.
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Old 10-31-2021, 06:00 PM   #54
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

Ah! I was thinking that Phase 1 and Phase 2 were on different turns.
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Old 11-01-2021, 12:29 AM   #55
Steve Plambeck
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

Telekinesis being exclusively an act of mental force rather than physical, it makes more sense if the contest is between the IQ of the caster and the ST of the target figure. Or perhaps as a further refinement, the contest could be IQ vs IQ when the target is another wizard's staff, but IQ vs ST when the object is a normal weapon or item. This way it would be hard as heck to disarm both Gandalf of his staff, and Conan of his sword, which seems the most logical.
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Old 11-01-2021, 06:39 AM   #56
Axly Suregrip
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

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Telekinesis being exclusively an act of mental force rather than physical, it makes more sense if the contest is between the IQ of the caster and the ST of the target figure. Or perhaps as a further refinement, the contest could be IQ vs IQ when the target is another wizard's staff, but IQ vs ST when the object is a normal weapon or item. This way it would be hard as heck to disarm both Gandalf of his staff, and Conan of his sword, which seems the most logical.
For the person holding onto the weapon, definitely ST.

For the wizard casting TK you can make an argument for either, but I prefer ST. This is base on what Telekinesis (ITL 27) states "A wizard may do anything with TK that he could do if his own body were there."

So, either ST vs ST (I definitely prefer) or IQ vs ST, but never IQ vs IQ.
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Old 11-01-2021, 06:46 AM   #57
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

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Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
Telekinesis being exclusively an act of mental force rather than physical, it makes more sense if the contest is between the IQ of the caster and the ST of the target figure. Or perhaps as a further refinement, the contest could be IQ vs IQ when the target is another wizard's staff, but IQ vs ST when the object is a normal weapon or item. This way it would be hard as heck to disarm both Gandalf of his staff, and Conan of his sword, which seems the most logical.
There’s something to that, but the description of Telekineses informs us that a wizard can do anything with it that they would be able to do with their physical body—which suggests that ST is the deciding attribute. Wizards already have ample incentive to invest in IQ, but, now with the Staff’s mana stat, there isn’t much of one to invest in ST.
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Old 11-01-2021, 07:22 AM   #58
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

TK - why not use it to choke the person till they let go of the Staff.
maybe an unexpected quick twist of the head, a well placed knee or squeeze would definitely change his focus.
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Old 11-01-2021, 08:19 AM   #59
Axly Suregrip
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

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TK - why not use it to choke the person till they let go of the Staff.
maybe an unexpected quick twist of the head, a well placed knee or squeeze would definitely change his focus.
Interesting. Grapple in HTH, but with your invisible force body. I would make it adhere to the HTH rules. So, you would cast the TK thrown spell on the foe, instead of on his weapon. I would consider requiring the HTH initiation. TK says it is to be cast on an object, but I don't see why a person shouldn't be the target. Getting the details right would be important. But yes, if I had a player suggest this I would try to find a way to allow it.
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Old 01-10-2022, 03:02 PM   #60
Eric Funk
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

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Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
Interesting. Grapple in HTH, but with your invisible force body. I would make it adhere to the HTH rules. So, you would cast the TK thrown spell on the foe, instead of on his weapon. I would consider requiring the HTH initiation. TK says it is to be cast on an object, but I don't see why a person shouldn't be the target. Getting the details right would be important. But yes, if I had a player suggest this I would try to find a way to allow it.
Note there is already some precedent for this sort of thing under Distant Blow spell (M144). (Foe defends as if an invisible foe was attacking them), so -4 if aware of THIS attacker, no defense if not expecting an attack at this point! (see p. B394.)

Combine this with a Disarm attack. B399, 400, which is only -3 against a 2-hex weapon (e.g., staff).
If you are training to disarm wizrds this -3 can be bought up to only -1 to hit with Targetted Attacks Technique (p.MA68).


I had a wizard PC use Signature Gear to Hex their staff so this would not work... (M57)
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